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※ 引述《seafood (河豚生魚片)》之銘言: : ※ 引述《Geigemachen ()》之銘言: : : 推 eslite12:我覺得G兄這篇文章會回到一個老問題 就是民族的本質 01/12 00:24 : : → eslite12:民族本來就是社會大於血緣 不單是猶太人如此 01/12 00:25 : 前面舉的例子,似乎都是在"人種外觀"沒有差別太大的情況下所發生的。 : 我聽說過有黃種人信了猶太教,這樣會被閃族猶太人認同嗎? : 我沒聽說過有黑人信猶太教,我猜,那會比黃種人更難被閃族猶太認同 : 為同一民族。 如果你有聽過衣索匹亞猶太人回歸以色列的報導, 你就知道黑人入籍以色列不成問題,黃種的開封猶太人要入籍以色列也不是膚色的問題。 85%的衣索匹亞猶太人,據稱他們是由猶太祖先與黑人所生下的黑人, 都依照以色列的回歸法成功移民以色列,且直接取得以色列公民權, 這些黑皮膚的猶太人取得公民權的速度,跟白種的猶太教猶太人一樣快。 這些衣索匹亞猶太黑人取得公民權,比改信天主教的白種猶太人還要快。 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Jew Nearly 85% of the Ethiopian Beta Israel community, comprising more than 120,000 people, have emigrated to Israel under its Law of Return, which gives Jews and those with Jewish parents or grandparents, and all of their spouses, the right to settle in Israel and obtain citizenship. The Israeli government has mounted rescue operations, most notably during Operation Moses (1984) and Operation Solomon (1991), for their migration when civil war and famine threatened populations within Ethiopia. Some immigration has continued up until the present day. 開封黃種猶太人,據稱他們是由猶太祖先與中國人所生下的黃種人。 根據以色列回歸法,他們無法直接獲得以色列公民權,因為開封猶太人跟中國回教徒 太過友好以致於幾乎是回教徒了。開封猶太人為了避免引起回教徒的敵意, 多數採取漢族的自我認同,不願意移民回以色列,也不願意取得以色列國籍獲得公民權。 最近有一個開封猶太人家庭集體改信猶太教,成功取得以色列國籍與公民權。 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Jew The Kaifeng Jews intermarried with local Chinese, and are thus indistinguishable in appearance from their non-Jewish neighbors.[5] Within the framework of contemporary rabbinical Judaism, only matrilineal transmission of Jewishness is recognized, while Chinese Jews based their Jewishness on patrilineal descent. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaifeng_Jews The Kaifeng Jews are members of a small Jewish community that has existed in Kaifeng, in the Henan province of China, for hundreds of years. Although Jews in modern China have traditionally called themselves Youtai (犹太, from Judah) in Mandarin Chinese — also the predominant contemporary Chinese language term for Jews in general — the community was known by their Han Chinese neighbors as adherents of Tiaojinjiao (挑筋教), meaning, loosely, the religion which removes the sinew (a reference to kashrut). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaifeng_Jews#Kaifeng_Jews_today As a result, they are required to undergo conversion in order to receive Israeli citizenship under the Law of Return. Most descendants of Kaifeng's Jewish community are only vaguely aware of their ancestry[6]. Some, however, say their parents and grandparents told them that they were Jewish and would one day "return to their land." [2] The one trait that differentiated them from their neighbors was not eating pork.[2] While the official attitude toward the descendants of Kaifeng's Jewish community is comfortable, their treatment by their fellow-citizens is not always so. Kaifeng is home to a dynamic Muslim community, which is very cohesive, having survived 50 years of isolation and officially sanctioned hostility (largely, presumably, because of the relationship between the Hui, Uyghur, and Kazakh ethnicities and the Chinese government). In that period, the descendants of Kaifeng's Jewish community were protected and helped by Muslims, to the point that they became largely indistinguishable from the Muslim community. That changed with the opening up of China, when Kaifeng's Muslims reestablished links with Muslims elsewhere. The community received assistance from Muslim nations, and adopted much of the prevailing anti-Israeli, anti-Jewish attitude. The Kaifeng mosque propagates "Conquered Jerusalem" anti-Israeli propaganda, and the local Muslim population has developed an increasingly hostile attitude toward Jews. Since few outside Jews ever visit Kaifeng, this hostility is channeled toward the descendants of the Kaifeng Jewish community. There are rumors of pogroms, information about which is reportedly censored by the Chinese government. Because of this situation, many descendants of the Kaifeng Jewish community prefer to pass as ethnic Han.[citation needed]  Recently, however, a family of Kaifeng Jewish descendants have formally converted to Judaism and have become Israeli citizens. Whether or not more Kaifeng Jewish descendants will follow in this family's path remains a matter of speculation.[1] 由以上案例得知,有可靠資料證明祖先是猶太人,且歸信猶太教 (不認耶穌是神,也不認耶穌是救世主) 就必然可以立刻取得以色列國籍(成年人立刻獲得以色列公民權)。 此議題的爭議點是在於怎麼由什麼機構來判定申請者已經改信猶太教, 而不是此改信者的膚色。 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_return#Applicability One central issue is who has the authority over determining the validity of conversions to Judaism for purposes of immigration and citizenship. For historical reasons, the Chief Rabbinate of Israel, under the Israeli Ministry of Religious Affairs, made this determination, but this arrangement is in question. This practice has met opposition among non-Orthodox religious leaders both within Israel and in the diaspora. Several attempts have been made to resolve the issue, the most recent being the Ne'eman Commission, but an impasse persists. On March 31, 2005, the Israeli Supreme Court ruled 7-4 that all conversions performed outside of Israel would be recognized by the authorities under the Law of Return, notwithstanding the Ne'eman Commission's view that a single body should determine eligibility for immigration. Orthodox religious leaders objected vehemently to this ruling, arguing that it would lead to fraudulent immigration applications. 成為以色列公民的其他不同方法: 1.長期居住在以色列 2.服完以色列的兵役 3.與以色列公民結婚 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_return#Arguments_in_support_of_ the_Law_of_Return For example, non-Jews can become citizens by naturalization, residence, or marrying an Israeli citizen. Naturalization, for instance, is available under certain circumstances for the non-Jewish parents of a citizen who has completed his or her army service[14]. It is pointed out that the Law of Return was intended to deal with historic homelessness and persecution of Jews around the world.[15] [16] -- 上月球!月球是中國人吳剛不可分割的一部分 抓嫦娥!此女意圖分裂中國領土脫離中國掌握 殺玉兔!玉兔為資產階級之玩物!日帝之玩偶! --



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1F:推 Mieke:那想再請問 既然耶穌是猶太人 為何猶太人不相信耶穌是彌賽亞 01/13 13:55
2F:→ Geigemachen:猶太人認為耶穌不是政治軍事領袖,沒建立猶太獨立國 01/13 14:07
3F:推 dimer:現在的認定 如果媽媽是猶太人, 生下來的小孩就是猶太人 01/13 21:01
4F:推 shyuwu:"耶穌是猶太人",跟"猶太人要不要相信他"並沒有必然關係吧! 01/13 21:07







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