作者alen84204 (Dana)
看板Physics
標題Fw: [爆卦] 宇宙大小被估測出來了
時間Thu Jun 23 14:52:35 2016
※ [本文轉錄自 Gossiping 看板 #1NQsOPLS ]
作者: qlinyuhn (59極限) 看板: Gossiping
標題: [爆卦] 宇宙大小被估測出來了
時間: Thu Jun 23 12:31:19 2016
原文連結:
http://goo.gl/N891CD
"Let us go rambling about the Universe." This is the invitation that American astronomer Harlow Shapley gave to an audience in Washington DC in 1920. He was taking part in the so-called Great Debate with fellow scientist Heber Curtis on the scale of the Universe.
Shapley believed that our Milky Way galaxy was 300,000 light years across. That is actually three times too big according to the latest thinking, but his measurements were pretty good for the time. In particular, he calculated broadly correct proportional distances within the Milky Way – the position of our Sun relative to the centre of the galaxy, for instance.
In the early 20th Century, though, 300,000 light years seemed to many of Shapley's contemporaries an almost absurdly large figure. And the idea that other Milky Way-like spiral galaxies – which could be seen with telescopes – were equally large was outlandish.
Indeed, Shapley himself believed the Milky Way must be exceptional. "Even if the spirals are stellar, they are not comparable in size with our stellar system," he told his listeners.
Curtis disagreed. He thought, correctly, that there were many other galaxies as big as our own spread throughout the Universe. But, interestingly, his starting point was a belief that the Milky Way was far smaller than Shapley had calculated. According to the calculations that Curtis used, the Milky Way was just 30,000 light years in diameter – or, about three times too small going on modern measurements.
Three times too big; three times too small – when we are talking about such enormous distances it is understandable that astronomers debating almost a century ago could get their figures a little bit wrong.
Today we are fairly confident that the Milky Way is probably between 100,000 and 150,000 light years across. The observable Universe is, of course, much larger. According to current thinking it is about 93 billion light years in diameter. How can we be so sure? And how did we ever come up with such measurements from right here on Earth?
Ever since Copernicus argued that the Earth was not the centre of the Solar System, it seems we have always found it difficult to rewrite our preconceptions of what the Universe is – and especially, how big it may be. Even today, as we will see, we are gathering new evidence to suggest the whole Universe may be much bigger than some have recently thought.
Caitlin Casey, an astronomer at the University of Texas at Austin, studies the Universe as we know it. As she points out, astronomers have developed an ingenious array of tools and measuring systems to calculate not just the distance from Earth to other bodies in our Solar System, but the spans between galaxies and the journey to the edge of the observable Universe itself.
The steps to measuring all these things are known as the "cosmic distance ladder". The first rung of the ladder is easy enough for us to get onto and these days it relies on modern technology.
"We can just bounce radio waves off of neighbouring planets in the Solar System, like Venus and Mars, and measure the time it takes for those waves to come back to Earth," says Casey. "That gives us a very precise measurement."
Big radio telescopes like Arecibo in Puerto Rico can do this sort of work – but they can also do even more than that. Arecibo, for instance, can detect asteroids flying around the Solar System and even produce images of them based on how radio waves reflect off the asteroid's surface.
But using radio waves to measure distances beyond our Solar System is not practical. The next rung on the cosmic distance ladder is something known as parallax measurement.
This is also something we do all the time without realising. Humans, like many animals, intuitively recognise the distance between themselves and objects, thanks to the fact that we have two eyes.
If you hold an object in front of you – say your hand – and look at it with one eye open, then switch to using only the other eye, you will see your hand appears to shift sideways slightly. This is called parallax. The difference between those two observations can be used to work out the distance to the object in question.
Our brains do it naturally with the information from both our eyes, and astronomers do exactly the same thing with nearby stars, except they use different sensors: telescopes.
Imagine having two eyes floating in space, either side of our Sun. Thanks to the Earth's orbit, that is exactly what we do have, and we can view stars' shift relative to objects in the background by this method.
"We take a measurement of where stars are in the sky, say, in January and we wait six months and measure those same stars in July, when we're on the opposite side of the Sun," says Casey.
However, there is a point at which objects are so far away – about 100 light years – that the observed shift is too small to provide a useful calculation. At this distance, we are still nowhere near the edge of our own galaxy.
The next step up is a technique called "main sequence fitting". It relies on our knowledge of how stars of a certain size – known as main sequence stars – evolve over time.
For one thing, they change colour, gradually becoming redder with age. By measuring their colour and brightness accurately, and then comparing this to what is known about the distance of closer main sequence stars measurable by parallax, we can estimate the positions of these more distant stars.
The principle that backs these calculations is that which states that stars of the same mass and age would appear equally bright were they the same distance from us. Since they are often not, we can use the difference in those measurements to work out how far away they actually are.
Main sequence stars, when used for this analysis, are considered one type of "standard candle" – meaning a body whose magnitude (or brightness) we can calculate mathematically. These candles are dotted around space, lighting the Universe in predictable ways. But main sequence stars are not the only examples.
This understanding of how brightness relates to distance is pretty fundamental to working out the distance to even farther objects – like stars in other galaxies. Main sequence fitting will not work there, though, because the light from those stars – which are millions of light years away if not more – is hard to analyse with accuracy.
But way back in 1908, a scientist called Henrietta Swan Leavitt at Harvard came up with a fantastic discovery that has helped us measure such colossal distances. Swan Leavitt realised that there was a special class of stars called Cepheid variables.
"She made this observation that a certain type of star varies its brightness over time, and the variation in the brightness, the pulsations of these stars, relates directly to how bright they are intrinsically," says Casey.
In other words, a brighter Cepheid will "pulsate" more slowly (over the course of many days, in fact) than a dimmer Cepheid. Because astronomers can measure the pulse of a Cepheid relatively easily, they can predict how bright the star is. Then, by observing how bright it actually appears to us, they can calculate its distance.
This is similar in principle to the main-sequence fitting approach, in that brightness is again the key. But the key point is that distance can be measured in different ways. And the more ways of measuring distances we have, the better we can understand the true scale of our cosmic backyard.
It was the detection of such stars in our own galaxy that convinced Harlow Shapley of its great size.
In the early 1920s, Edwin Hubble detected Cepheid variables in the nearby Andromeda galaxy and discerned that it was just under a million light years away.
Today, our best estimate is that the galaxy is actually 2.54 million light years away. But that does not shame Hubble's measurement. In fact, we are still trying to work out a best estimate for the distance to Andromeda. The 2.54 million light years figure is actually an average of several recent calculations.
This is the point at which the sheer scale of the Universe, even now, continues to boggle our minds. We can make very good estimates, but in truth it is extremely difficult to measure distances between galaxies with fine accuracy. The Universe really is that big. And it does not stop there.
Hubble also measured the brightness of exploding white dwarf stars – Type 1A supernovas. These can be seen in quite distant galaxies, billions of light years away.
Because the brightness of these explosions is calculable, we can determine how far away they are, just like we can with Cepheid variables. The Type 1A supernovas and Cepheid variables, then, are both additional examples of what astronomers call standard candles.
But there is one more feature of the Universe that can help us to measure really extreme distances. It is called redshift.
If an ambulance or police car blaring a siren has ever passed you in the street, you will be familiar with the Doppler Effect. As the ambulance approaches you the siren seems high in pitch and then, as it passes you and moves away, it falls again.
The same thing happens with light waves, on a much finer scale. We can detect the change by analysing the spectrum of light from distant bodies. This spectrum will have dark lines in it because some specific colours are absorbed by elements in and around the light source – the surface of stars, for example.
The further away objects are from us, the further towards the red end of the spectrum those lines will be shifted. That is not just because the objects are far away, but because they are actually moving further away from us over time, thanks to the Universe's expansion. And seeing redshift in the light from distant galaxies is one way of proving that the Universe is, indeed, expanding.
It is like putting dots on the surface of a balloon – each representing a galaxy – and then blowing up the balloon, says Kartik Sheth, a programme scientist at NASA. As the balloon expands the distance between the dots on its surface grows. "As the Universe is expanding, each galaxy is moving away from the others."
"Basically, a wave would normally just be whatever frequency it was emitted at, but now you're stretching space-time itself so therefore the wave looks longer."
The faster that galaxy is moving from us, the further away it must be – and the more redshifted its light will be when we analyse it back here on Earth. Again, it was Edwin Hubble who discovered that there was a proportional relationship between his Cepheids in distant galaxies and how much the light from those galaxies was redshifted.
Now comes the big key to our puzzle. The most redshifted light we can detect in the observable Universe suggests that light has reached us from galaxies that are 13.8 billion years old.
Because this is the oldest light we have detected, that also gives us a measurement for the age of the Universe itself.
But over the last 13.8 billion years, the Universe has been continually expanding – and at first it did so very rapidly. Taking that into account, astronomers have worked out that the galaxies right on the edge of the observable Universe, whose light has taken 13.8 billion years to reach us, must now be 46.5 billion light years away.
That is our best measurement for the radius of the observable Universe. Doubling it, of course, gives the diameter: 93 billion light years.
This figure rests on many other measurements and bits of science, and it is the culmination of centuries of work. But, as Casey notes, it is still a little rough.
For one thing, given the complexity of some of the oldest galaxies we can detect, it is not clear how they were able to form so quickly after the Big Bang. One possibility is that, somewhere, a few of our calculations are not quite right.
"If one of the rungs of the cosmic distance ladder is off by 10%, then everything's off by 10%, because they rely on each other," says Casey.
And where things get really complex is when we try to think about the Universe beyond that which is observable. The "whole" Universe, as it were. Depending on which theory of the shape of the Universe you prefer, the whole Universe could actually be finite or infinite.
Recently, Mihran Vardanyan and colleagues at the University of Oxford in the UK analysed known data about objects in the observable Universe, to see if they could work out anything about the shape of the whole Universe.
The result, after using computer algorithms to look for meaningful patterns in the data, was a new estimate. The whole Universe is at least 250 times as large as the observable Universe.
We can never see these more distant regions. Still, the observable Universe alone should be big enough for most people. Indeed, for scientists like Casey and Sheth, it remains a constant source of fascination.
"Everything that we've learned about the Universe – how big it is, all the amazing objects that are in it – we do that simply by collecting these photons of light that have travelled millions and millions of light years only to come and die on our detectors, our cameras or radio telescopes," says Sheth.
"It's rather humbling," says Casey. "Astronomy has taught us that we're not the centre of the Universe, we're not even at the centre of our Solar System or at the centre of our galaxy."
One day, we might travel physically much further into the Universe around us than we have so far dreamed. For now, we can only look. But just looking can let us ramble pretty far.
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目前的觀測數據平均值
宇宙的直徑大概有930億光年
你可以說祂無限大
也可以說祂有限大
就看你要用什麼理論看待/檢驗這宇宙
^.<
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1F:推 ipadmini6: 跟我算出來的差不多 06/23 12:31
2F:→ Firstshadow: (づ′・ω・)づ 原來= = 06/23 12:31
3F:→ gbcowandy: 跟我想的一樣 06/23 12:31
4F:→ pneumo: 喔 06/23 12:31
5F:→ theskyofblue: 喔 是喔 06/23 12:31
6F:→ jma306: 比大覺者還大 06/23 12:31
7F:推 s87087: 大宇宙 06/23 12:31
8F:推 smreignqrop: 先推 免得別人說我看不懂 06/23 12:32
9F:→ cul287: 觀測大小哪裡等於實際大小? 06/23 12:32
10F:→ tokinosora: 好長喔 06/23 12:32
11F:推 iiooii: 嗯嗯 昨天睡前也是這麼想 06/23 12:32
12F:→ roalan: 納超過930億光年後會是什麼? 06/23 12:32
13F:推 diding: 我前幾年就推出來了 06/23 12:32
14F:推 SE4NLN415: 好無聊 幾億輩子都沒辦法探索的空間 06/23 12:32
15F:→ brella: 問題是有1000億個宇宙 06/23 12:32
16F:噓 dxdy: 早就知道了 06/23 12:32
17F:推 dirubest: 這麼短,五樓尻一槍的時間就到惹 06/23 12:32
18F:推 wang1b: 跟我一樣長 06/23 12:32
19F:推 e30901: 先推 免得人說我看不懂 06/23 12:32
20F:推 lunar: 跟我差不多 06/23 12:32
21F:推 wsx1678904: 這不是可觀測尺度而已嗎? 06/23 12:32
22F:推 fvbcgn124578: 跟我想的差不多 06/23 12:33
23F:推 barbarian72: 是虛空之遺 薩爾納迦 06/23 12:33
24F:推 system32: 外星人母艦比太平洋大,真的不誇張 06/23 12:33
25F:→ ralfeistein: 觀測的宇宙數量不夠,不符合統計概念,扣分 06/23 12:33
26F:噓 gk1329: 不信 宇宙壽命才150億年 大小930億光年? 超過150億光年 06/23 12:33
27F:推 Doub1eK: 嗯嗯 原來是這樣 06/23 12:33
28F:推 p610087924: 剛剛在苦讀四則運算的時候有算出來 06/23 12:33
29F:噓 zy116pj: 跟我起床尿尿算的差不多 06/23 12:33
30F:推 syuantsai: 和我上次想的一樣 06/23 12:33
31F:→ tonyhom: 外宇宙: 你的小宇宙 也敢拿出來跟大家比哦 06/23 12:34
32F:→ vestal: 那外星人從土星飛到地球要多久... 06/23 12:34
33F:→ gk1329: 的資訊到到不了 是怎麼推的? 06/23 12:34
34F:推 kitty7788: 不合理 06/23 12:34
35F:噓 sai5566: 宇宙的旁邊是蛇某?旁邊的旁邊又是什抹? 06/23 12:34
36F:推 bluehsin: 現在才算出來有什麼好嘴的 06/23 12:34
37F:→ wste: 這我上輩子就知道了,結果現在還公停留在這階段 06/23 12:34
38F:噓 chikan: 沒看過七龍珠喔 有12個宇宙好嗎 06/23 12:34
39F:→ tony22725385: 原來如此 06/23 12:35
40F:→ deony: 先證明沒有平行宇宙再說 06/23 12:35
41F:推 applebeloved: 這我早就知道了只是忘了說而已 06/23 12:35
42F:推 Miralles: 這種事情,還是請示一下上人比較好 06/23 12:35
43F:→ sai5566: 我們宇宙的大小,只是遠古外星人世界裡微生物大小的等級? 06/23 12:35
44F:→ enjoyyou: 反正又證實不了~~ 06/23 12:35
45F:推 mylo: 比我懶叫小一點 還算OK 06/23 12:36
46F:噓 jay111101: 宇宙的外面是一間肥宅的房間 06/23 12:36
47F:→ kahabu: 這算錯了我的理論是宇宙之外還有宇宙的,只是懒得發表文章 06/23 12:36
48F:→ ranway: seefood早就開示過惹 06/23 12:36
49F:→ lee85313xd: 哦哦 這跟我之前想的差不多 06/23 12:36
50F:推 bt022: 怎麼有人有宇宙一億年膨脹一億光年的錯覺XD 06/23 12:36
51F:推 chriskai: 有待商榷,我也是覺得不太合理...應該無邊際才對。不然 06/23 12:37
52F:→ chriskai: 照這樣說,邊際的隔壁會是什麼?另一個宇宙?? 06/23 12:37
53F:推 plzza0cats: 宇宙會不會是圓的 06/23 12:37
54F:推 chilahachila: 930*3*10^8*60*60*24*356 的距離 06/23 12:37
55F:→ aelsa: 小宇宙外面是宇宙,宇宙外?是宇宙。釋迦摩尼佛說過:一粒 06/23 12:37
56F:推 storyf66014: 嗯嗯 跟我想的一樣 06/23 12:37
57F:→ aelsa: 沙有三千大千世界(非原話),依照生命層次決定你能瞭解的宇 06/23 12:37
58F:推 a15661263: 台灣老闆認為這無法增加GDP沒有意義 06/23 12:38
59F:推 panex0845: 宇宙是圓的 那宇宙外面又是什麼 06/23 12:38
60F:推 kobe9527: 跟我想的一樣大 06/23 12:38
61F:→ sai5566: 宇宙應該只是外星肥宅房間裡面的一顆灰塵吧 06/23 12:38
62F:→ aelsa: 宙範圍,簡單說佛外還有佛,更高的佛,大概如此 06/23 12:38
63F:推 four0428: 嗯嗯 跟我想的一樣 06/23 12:38
64F:→ JuiFu617: 所以宇宙大小不會膨脹變大嗎? 06/23 12:38
65F:→ ascii: 所以有宇宙邊緣人嗎 06/23 12:38
66F:→ v7q4: 嗯 跟我估算的有0.00001%誤差 可是不錯了 06/23 12:38
67F:推 more5566: 應該是此宇宙吧 不同次元還有其他宇宙 06/23 12:38
68F:推 mylo: 為什麼要有邊際 你在地球表面找邊際試試看 06/23 12:38
69F:→ shi0520: 能夠量化的一定是有限大 06/23 12:39
70F:→ fecccc0000: 這不是常識嗎 06/23 12:39
71F:推 garry5566: 為什麼宇宙的直徑會比宇宙的年齡x2大這麼多? 這不是意 06/23 12:39
72F:推 shenchermi: 好險我都看的懂 06/23 12:39
73F:→ garry5566: 謂著宇宙擴張速度大於光速嗎? 06/23 12:39
74F:推 KizunaHoshin: 趕快推以免別人覺得我看不懂 06/23 12:39
75F:推 ksxo: 常識+1 06/23 12:39
76F:推 goiohi: 宇宙外面還有什麼啊 06/23 12:39
77F:噓 gold97972000: 不懂哪裡有掛... 06/23 12:39
78F:推 pytzog: 最後發現 我們只是被外星人養在實驗室培養皿裡的實驗生物 06/23 12:39
79F:推 maxty: 跟我的大覺者一樣長 06/23 12:40
80F:噓 smoker9527: 跟我想的一樣 抄我的吧 06/23 12:40
81F:推 nanahala: 也許這個宇宙只是台灣大小呢,其他宇宙存在的可能性? 06/23 12:40
82F:→ mylo: 佛說的就唬爛而已 西方在宇宙中是哪一方 06/23 12:40
83F:→ SiFox: 哪裡有賣宇宙模型? 06/23 12:40
84F:推 pigo8032: 這只是可觀測宇宙而已啊 06/23 12:40
85F:噓 wsx1678904: 補充一下 九百多億的說法好幾年前就有了 06/23 12:41
86F:推 ubike5566: 跟我想的差不多 06/23 12:41
87F:推 shadowdio: 還用你說? 06/23 12:41
88F:推 evan1004: 沒什麼 跟5樓的寶劍差不多長 06/23 12:41
89F:推 ooxxman: 還在繼續膨脹中 宇宙紅移 06/23 12:42
90F:→ wsx1678904: 可觀測應該只有一百多億 九百多億是用其他方法估算的 06/23 12:43
91F:→ wsx1678904: 而且應該是至少九百多億 可能會更大 06/23 12:43
92F:→ ooxxman: 並可能有多重宇宙 06/23 12:43
93F:推 v7q4: wsx大說的是某黨的黨產吧 06/23 12:43
94F:推 rain7667958: 還不發射什麼鬼波讓外星人來泥巴球玩玩 06/23 12:43
95F:→ makoto0952: 恩恩,跟我想得差不多 06/23 12:43
96F:→ piece1: 直徑....宇宙是球體嗎? 06/23 12:43
97F:推 computer0717: 趕快推,要不然人家以為我看不懂 06/23 12:44
98F:推 thrss: 宇宙大 房價怎麼還是那麼貴 06/23 12:44
99F:→ gold97972000: 他說的直徑應該是可觀測的範圍 並不是指宇宙 06/23 12:45
100F:→ shirokase: D碟被刪的那一瞬間不就都知道了? 06/23 12:45
101F:推 wby0122: 這不是我十年前的論文嗎? 06/23 12:45
102F:→ gold97972000: 所以這篇的原PO總結問題很大 06/23 12:46
103F:→ sai5566: 還是說宇宙只是外星小屁孩參加科展的實驗模型? 06/23 12:46
104F:→ wsx1678904: 我查資料是說 九百多億的說法是用宇宙背景輻射算的 06/23 12:46
105F:→ aelsa: 西方是用人能理解方式說明,佛在西道在東。地球在旋轉,銀 06/23 12:46
106F:→ aelsa: 河系也在旋轉,哪有東南西北之分。用人的想法很難理解高層 06/23 12:46
107F:→ wsx1678904: 可見光的話應該只有一百四十億左右 06/23 12:47
108F:→ aelsa: 生命的思想 06/23 12:47
109F:推 a35715987: 嗯? 宇宙之外有 06/23 12:48
110F:→ matrox323: 跟我想得差不多 06/23 12:48
111F:推 SRNOB: 930億外面那一公分是什麼東西? 06/23 12:48
112F:→ gdm0037: 嗯 跟我想的差不多 06/23 12:48
113F:推 zoidsx: 反正還會繼續大 06/23 12:49
114F:推 ooto: 930億光年算什麼,用yoyo航空器,一下就能繞到宇宙盡頭 06/23 12:49
115F:推 hibbb: 嗯嗯,果然是這樣啊!(心虛) 06/23 12:49
116F:→ minoru04: 附佛外道就是等人家科學研究出來才在拿自己講的穿鑿附會 06/23 12:49
117F:噓 Uwen5566: 硬要扯宗教 邪門歪道的東西滾開 06/23 12:50
118F:推 shen245: 9.3×10^10 06/23 12:50
119F:推 sa7227: 差不多 06/23 12:50
120F:→ phew18: 為什麼算這麼久 計算機壞了嗎 06/23 12:51
121F:推 harvey1688: 大爆炸後的時空相對也會膨脹 所以會>138yee 06/23 12:51
122F:推 fishfish1314: 外面就暗黑大陸啊 沒看獵人嗎 06/23 12:52
123F:推 petersu: 但你媽的大小還在觀測中 06/23 12:53
124F:→ green0953: 比我媽還瘦 06/23 12:53
125F:推 logLCY: 幹這不是很久以前就知道了= =“ 06/23 12:54
126F:推 AirPenguin: 所以盡頭是甚麼 06/23 12:55
127F:→ k1400: 但我的小宇宙是無限的啊啊啊啊 06/23 12:55
128F:→ k1400: 06/23 12:55
129F:推 icyhacker: 他隨便說個數字一般人也不知道真假 06/23 12:55
130F:推 doyouself: 930億光年裡,只有地球有生命存在的機率是多少? 06/23 12:57
131F:推 impact999: 哼 這我早就知道了 06/23 12:57
132F:→ miketk: 那最終點是道牆? 牆的後面是啥? 06/23 12:57
133F:推 gold97972000: 適合生命生存好像只有0.0000................0012% 06/23 12:58
134F:噓 ScottOAO: = = 宇宙不是平的好嗎 盡頭不一定是一道障礙 06/23 12:59
135F:→ owenkuo: 連畢卡艦長都飛不了那麼遠,人類繼續反核下去,再過個50 06/23 12:59
136F:→ k1400: 要用(女神的驚嘆)打破才會知道 06/23 12:59
137F:→ owenkuo: 年連木星都沒辦法去 06/23 12:59
138F:推 Chiccoco: 我就知道是這樣 06/23 12:59
139F:→ owenkuo: 反核團體就是外星人派來地球當間碟要把地球人關在地球圈 06/23 13:00
140F:→ owenkuo: 的幫兇!!!!!!!! 06/23 13:00
141F:噓 phoenician: 所以盡頭的外面是甚麼 06/23 13:00
142F:推 Drunken5566: 庫伯都告訴你有愛就能用重力蒿洨 是在核能發撒小電喇 06/23 13:00
143F:噓 jackersssss: 嗯嗯 郭p4 06/23 13:01
144F:推 shakesper: 沒人反對,所以一定是真的 06/23 13:02
145F:噓 tony0223tw: 算錯了 我當初造的時候有1萬光年這麼大 06/23 13:02
146F:推 tiuseensii: 宇宙是(至少)4D的球體吧,這直徑怎麼算? 06/23 13:02
147F:噓 sai5566: 還是說宇宙只是外星電腦模擬器跑出來的model?Y 06/23 13:06
148F:推 s7913964: 有沒有很多人不知道光年是距離的八卦 06/23 13:08
149F:推 chukuanan: 佛經裡的"三千大千世界"就已說明宇宙多大了~ 06/23 13:09
150F:推 schopan: 靠北 我算的差兩億光年 06/23 13:09
151F:→ Acar81000: END 06/23 13:09
152F:推 sm3bp078: 跟我用電腦小算盤算的差不多 06/23 13:12
153F:→ Skyraker1320: 看看就好 反正觀測這早就超過地球人的能力範圍惹 06/23 13:13
154F:推 allan0926: 像弦論一樣無法觀測吧! 06/23 13:13
155F:→ Skyraker1320: 930憶喔 你慢慢跑 就算是有限也永遠沒人知道外面是 06/23 13:14
156F:→ Skyraker1320: 啥 基本上無限已經沒區別了 06/23 13:15
157F:→ kevinwphard: 跟我想的差不多 06/23 13:15
158F:噓 GodZeus: 噓某樓 壽命跟大小 哪有關係 06/23 13:16
159F:推 LIHUNGCHIEH: 我小學就知道了 06/23 13:20
160F:推 yeh0416: 摁摁 跟我想的差不多 06/23 13:28
161F:→ Ayenyen: 嗯嗯 06/23 13:29
162F:→ ilove930336: 跟我的屁眼差不多大 06/23 13:33
163F:→ warluck: 嗯嗯 原來是醬 06/23 13:34
164F:→ Shin722: 話說這要怎麼驗證阿? 觀測光又沒走完900多億得時間 06/23 13:37
165F:推 K0933: 亂講我也不知道 06/23 13:37
166F:→ Skyraker1320: 唬一下就好了 反正沒人知道 06/23 13:38
167F:推 payday: 我說正確的是932億光年 誰能反駁我 06/23 13:40
168F:→ AGODC: 跟我算出來的差不多 06/23 13:40
169F:推 wolve: end 06/23 13:40
170F:推 nk11208z: 我也這樣想 06/23 13:41
171F:推 zx3393: 是球體? 06/23 13:48
172F:推 jack0316047: 趕快推,免得被說看不懂 06/23 13:50
173F:推 vi000246: 所以碰到底會怎樣 有牆壁嗎 06/23 13:51
174F:噓 rex9999: 胡扯 要讓學界脫假說 除非你能證實 故宇宙大小是未知 06/23 13:51
175F:推 huhu12301231: 從大霹靂用光速走150億年也才150光年而已欸 06/23 13:55
176F:→ huhu12301231: 150億 06/23 13:55
177F:推 duck78803139: 先推 免得人說我看不懂 06/23 13:57
178F:推 parkblack: 跟我算的差不多 06/23 13:58
179F:推 Hengle: 我的想法被抄襲了 06/23 14:01
180F:推 jacky6374: 壽命跟大小一樣嗎zzz壽命150億光年就不能膨脹成930億光 06/23 14:08
181F:→ jacky6374: 年了?_? 06/23 14:08
182F:推 kensues: 問題是他在量測的過程中宇宙也在擴張 06/23 14:10
184F:→ threeforw: 文章早就提出了XD 比中華四維拓墣帝國還小一點 06/23 14:14
185F:推 a5245242003: 未看先猜有跟我想的一樣 06/23 14:20
186F:推 photoshark: 我只關心眼前正妹的罩杯多大 06/23 14:20
187F:→ tp943308: 先推免得我看不懂 06/23 14:26
188F:推 chaobii: 這很難算? 06/23 14:29
189F:推 ivan761016: 宇宙邊緣人表示寂寞 06/23 14:31
190F:推 karue: 朕知道了 06/23 14:31
191F:推 RIFF: 宇宙的開展 比光速快 06/23 14:32
192F:推 chiguang: 估測…我估測比這個大6億倍說 06/23 14:32
193F:推 mnnraku: 在我的誤差範圍內 06/23 14:37
194F:推 flow0401: 太神啦 06/23 14:45
※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc)
※ 轉錄者: alen84204 (111.243.6.112), 06/23/2016 14:52:35
195F:推 longkiss0618: 是真的嗎? 真測量的 06/23 15:50
196F:推 yvb: 考古文... wikipedia "可觀測宇宙" 06/23 15:53
197F:→ yvb: 參考文獻 8.(2005年) 和 16.(2011年) 06/23 15:54
198F:推 Bboykeyes: 宇宙一直在膨脹,現在算出來 下一秒又不對了 07/23 21:14
199F:→ Bboykeyes: 原文推文裡面有人質疑930億光年跟宇宙年齡138億年… 07/23 21:15
200F:→ Bboykeyes: 空間膨脹速率比光速快是不合理的嗎? 空間本身又不是 07/23 21:15
201F:→ Bboykeyes: 質量 07/23 21:15