作者hifree (hifree)
看板politics
標題Re: [問題] 指控王金平關說的理由
時間Mon Sep 23 16:52:59 2013
關說的定義在這裡
「公務員廉政倫理規範」第二點第(五)款規定定義為:「指
其內容涉及本機關(構)或所屬機關(構)業務具體事項之決定、執行或不執行,且
因該事項之決定、執行或不執行致有
違法或不當而影響特定權利義務之虞。」
至於你提的案例
我實在看不懂你的重點在哪裡?
是說布希政府任意解任檢察官?
還是說國會議員施壓?
這跟本案有啥關係?
※ 引述《guare (瓜籽)》之銘言:
: 何謂關說?或者說如何處理?
: ※ 引述《hifree (hifree)》之銘言:
: : 其實這個案子剛好可以檢視一下何謂妨礙司法公正的關說
: : 在國外立法例下
: : 妨礙司法公正的正式定義為「具有妨礙司法公正傾向及意圖的作為、一連串的作為
: : 或行為」(an act, a series of acts, or conduct which has the tendency and
: : is intended to pervert the course of justice)具體表現在任何一種下列的行為:
: : 中止刑事檢控以換取報酬
: : 提出虛假的指控
: : 向調查人員提供虛假的陳述
: : 刻意協助他人逃避追捕
: : 恐嚇、脅迫或騷擾證人
: : 證人故意不出席聆訊,以換取報酬
: : 捏造、藏匿或毀滅證據
: : 發布文章,刻意妨礙司法公正
: : 不當地中止檢控
: : 使原來可能得以提出檢控的法定程序受挫
: Hifree 不愧是懂美國的人,一個實際案例剛好替 hifree 作註腳:
: 來源:
: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Domenici#Department_of_Justice_controversy
: (原文有點長,我重點解說)
: Prior to the 2006 midterm election Domenici called and pressured
: then-United States Attorney for the District of New Mexico David
: Iglesias to speed up indictments in a federal corruption
: investigation that involved at least one former Democratic state
: senator. When Iglesias said an indictment would not be handed down
: until at least December, Domenici said "I'm very sorry to hear
: that" — and the line went dead. Domenici's telephone manners were
: the subject of a later article in The Albuquerque Journal, which
: quoted numerous other sources whom Domenici had treated rudely by
: hanging up after making a point or receiving an unsatisfactory
: answer.
: 簡單地說,參議員杜曼尼的競爭對手因為貪污被檢察官調查,杜議員就打電
: 話給檢察官,希望他趕快處理,最好趕在11月選舉前。檢察官不鳥他,回覆
: 說最快得12月才能偵結
: Iglesias was fired a little over one month later by the
: Bush Administration. A communication by a senator or House member
: with a federal prosecutor regarding an ongoing criminal
: investigation is a violation of ethics rules.
: 重點是,一個月以後該名檢察官就被布希政府開除了!
: In a March 2007
: statement, Domenici admitted making such a call.[20] House
: Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers, D-Mich., issued
: subpoenas to require Iglesias and three other ousted U.S.
: attorneys to testify before Congress.[21]
: Domenici later admitted calling Iglesias, though Domenici claimed
: he never used the word "November" when he called Iglesias about an
: ongoing Albuquerque courthouse corruption case.[22] Domenici has
: denied trying to influence Iglesias, and has hired lawyer K. Lee
: Blalack II to represent him.[23]
: According to the Justice Department, Domenici called the
: Department and demanded Iglesias be replaced on four
: occasions.[24]
: According to The Washington Post, on the day of the firing
: (December 7, 2006) William Kelley, a deputy to then White House
: Counsel Harriet Miers, said in an email that Domenici's chief of
: staff was "happy as a clam" about the Iglesias firing. A week
: later, a Justice Department email to the White House counsel
: stated: "Domenici is going to send over names tomorrow (not even
: waiting for Iglesias's body to cool)."
: 這裡的重點是:有關係就沒關係,沒關係就有關係。你檢察官哪有我參議員
: 大?一通電話就把你開除了!
: On April 24, 2008, Domenici was admonished by the Senate Ethics
: Committee for "inappropriately" contacting in 2006 one of the nine
: U.S. attorneys later fired by President Bush.[16]
: 所謂的國會自律,僅值一紙不痛不癢的警告。
: The light punishment came after the committee found “no
: substantial evidence” that Domenici tried to influence attorney
: David Iglesias when he contacted him to inquire about the status
: of a 2006 investigation into corruption charges on a state
: Democratic official. A possible indictment could have buoyed the
: re-election hopes of Rep. Heather Wilson (R-N.M.), who was seeking
: to replace Domenici when the senator retires after his current
: term. Iglesias charged that Domenici and Wilson were pressuring
: him to wrap up the investigation before that November’s
: elections, a violation of ethics rules.[20]
: The Ethics Committee said that Domenici’s phone call to Iglesias,
: in advance of an upcoming election, “created an appearance of
: impropriety that reflected unfavorably on the Senate”.[20] In
: July 2010, Department of Justice prosecutors closed the two-year
: investigation without filing charges after determining that the
: firing was inappropriately political, but not criminal, saying
: "Evidence did not demonstrate that any prosecutable criminal
: offense was committed with regard to the removal of David
: Iglesias. The investigative team also determined that the evidence
: did not warrant expanding the scope of the investigation beyond
: the removal of Iglesias."[26] Domenici said of the closed
: investigation, "The Justice Department has now confirmed what I
: have always said and believed: I never attempted to interfere with
: any government investigation. I am glad that this matter has
: concluded."[26]
: 後面細節就不多翻了。
: 總之,這羣人 (foreign or domestic) 對關說司法個案的態度就是如此。從制度面到現實
: 面,一路走來始終如一。
: 我的心得是,這羣人一旦掌握了權力,大家真的只好個人顧性命。
--
※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc)
◆ From: 111.240.215.124
1F:→ guare:只能說,難怪小布希灰頭土臉的下台。 140.123.185.72 09/23 17:07
2F:→ guare:或者換個角度來看,布希開除了拒絕關說的檢 140.123.185.72 09/23 17:08
3F:→ guare:察官,馬英九是否該效法一下,獎賞陳守惶開 140.123.185.72 09/23 17:09
4F:→ guare:除黃世明,特偵組五上五下? 140.123.185.72 09/23 17:09
5F:→ guare:我提這個案例只是想褒獎hifree一下,因為你 140.123.185.72 09/23 17:10
6F:→ guare:真的很懂美國那套,至少很懂布希和共和黨那 140.123.185.72 09/23 17:10
7F:→ guare:套。講共和黨或許不公道,誰曉得民主黨沒有? 140.123.185.72 09/23 17:11
8F:→ guare:或許可以再請hifree開示一下。 140.123.185.72 09/23 17:11
那我也很想請您開示一下
本案檢察官不上訴哪裡違法或不當了
如何符合「公務員廉政倫理規範」第二點第(五)款:「指
其內容涉及本機關(構)或所屬機關(構)業務具體事項之決定、執行或不執行,且
因該事項之決定、執行或不執行致有
違法或不當而影響特定權利義務之虞。」
而構成違法關說
麻煩正面回答一下好嗎?
9F:→ guare:有...之虞的意思應該很清楚吧?本案若林上 140.123.185.72 09/23 17:50
10F:→ guare:訴,一定會再被駁回嗎?如果沒有100%確定, 140.123.185.72 09/23 17:51
11F:→ guare:只要有1%可能性,這個「虞」就成立。本有可 140.123.185.72 09/23 17:51
12F:→ guare:能被判有罪的案子(第一、二審的確判有罪) 140.123.185.72 09/23 17:52
13F:→ guare:因檢查官不上訴而無罪確定,這你要說無「違 140.123.185.72 09/23 17:52
14F:→ guare:法或不當而影響特定權利義務」,反而是我要 140.123.185.72 09/23 17:53
15F:→ guare:請妳開示一下了 140.123.185.72 09/23 17:53
1.背信罪無法上訴第三審
2.有無違反商業會計法部分是最高法院發回理由,高等法院應受其拘束
3.更一審判決已認定沒有登載不實,違反商業會計法部分不成罪
4.第三審無法自行認定事實
請問你上訴發回的可能性在哪裡?
還請明示
16F:推 pennymarkfox:所以hifree認為王金平沒有關說(或是 27.245.163.10 09/23 18:07
17F:→ pennymarkfox:遊說)對嗎? 27.245.163.10 09/23 18:07
至少沒有符合「公務員廉政倫理規範」第二點第(五)款所定義的關說
※ 編輯: hifree 來自: 111.240.215.124 (09/23 18:41)
18F:推 svin:無懈可擊的推論,真想拿大聲公幫你宣揚 123.192.75.210 09/23 18:50
19F:推 svin:柯建銘完全沒有得到任何利益,王金平也沒賣 123.192.75.210 09/23 18:52
樓上要不要看看這篇的反駁
http://ppt.cc/3FRs
不過重點還不在那
重點是
第 376 條
左列各罪之案件,經第二審判決者,不得上訴於第三審法院。
一、最重本刑為三年以下有期徒刑、拘役或專科罰金之罪。
二、刑法第三百二十條、第三百二十一條之竊盜罪。
三、刑法第三百三十五條、第三百三十六條第二項之侵占罪。
四、刑法第三百三十九條、第三百四十一條之詐欺罪。
五、刑法第三百四十二條之背信罪。
六、刑法第三百四十六條之恐嚇罪。
七、刑法第三百四十九條第二項之贓物罪。
背信罪本來就不能是訴第三審了
吵背不背信有啥意義?
22F:→ guare:有正面的論點,有反面的論點,而且文章是法 140.123.185.72 09/23 19:01
23F:→ guare:官或者研究員寫的,都是專業人士。這樣可以 140.123.185.72 09/23 19:01
24F:→ guare:符合「有...之虞」的條件了吧? 140.123.185.72 09/23 19:02
有人好像沒有搞清楚重點喔
第 376 條
左列各罪之案件,經第二審判決者,不得上訴於第三審法院。
一、最重本刑為三年以下有期徒刑、拘役或專科罰金之罪。
二、刑法第三百二十條、第三百二十一條之竊盜罪。
三、刑法第三百三十五條、第三百三十六條第二項之侵占罪。
四、刑法第三百三十九條、第三百四十一條之詐欺罪。
五、刑法第三百四十二條之背信罪
六、刑法第三百四十六條之恐嚇罪。
七、刑法第三百四十九條第二項之贓物罪。
背信罪根本不可能上訴第三審
何來符合「有...之虞」的說法?
25F:→ guare:你的意思是說你是台灣超級大法官,人家不管 140.123.185.72 09/23 19:06
26F:→ guare:是台中地院還是研究員,都得聽你一句話? 140.123.185.72 09/23 19:07
聽我的幹嘛?
法條說的那麼清楚
背信罪不得上訴第三審
你還疑問嗎?
27F:→ guare:既然正反意見都有,那表示還有爭議。如此怎 140.123.185.72 09/23 19:09
28F:→ guare:會沒有符合「有..之虞」的條件? 140.123.185.72 09/23 19:09
http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/chengs0112/article?mid=989&sc=1
. 背信罪依刑事訴訟法第376條第5款規定,屬不得上訴於第三審法院之罪名。檢察官以單一案件具有”上訴不可以分”為由,將背信罪與違反商業會計法一併上訴至最高法院,最高法院亦同此見解而將案件撤銷發回。簡單的說,檢察官認為曹興誠以違反商業會計法的方法,掏空聯電公司(背信罪),兩罪之間具有方法與結果的關係,在法律上稱為牽連犯,為單一案件,依刑法第55條規定,只論處較重刑的罪名,兩者具有不可分的關係。所以在上訴來說,因為兩罪具有不可分的關係,所以背信罪的部分也可以跟著違反商業會計法的部分一併上訴。
※ 編輯: hifree 來自: 111.240.215.124 (09/23 19:11)
30F:→ diggershi:檢察官有檢察官的倫理規範 查了一下... 59.120.184.171 09/23 19:28
31F:→ diggershi:應該是用第四條移送林檢察官移送評議會 59.120.184.171 09/23 19:32
32F:→ diggershi:那個條文可沒說 "之虞"喔 59.120.184.171 09/23 19:34