作者hifree (hifree)
看板politics
标题Re: [问题] 指控王金平关说的理由
时间Mon Sep 23 16:52:59 2013
关说的定义在这里
「公务员廉政伦理规范」第二点第(五)款规定定义为:「指
其内容涉及本机关(构)或所属机关(构)业务具体事项之决定、执行或不执行,且
因该事项之决定、执行或不执行致有
违法或不当而影响特定权利义务之虞。」
至於你提的案例
我实在看不懂你的重点在哪里?
是说布希政府任意解任检察官?
还是说国会议员施压?
这跟本案有啥关系?
※ 引述《guare (瓜籽)》之铭言:
: 何谓关说?或者说如何处理?
: ※ 引述《hifree (hifree)》之铭言:
: : 其实这个案子刚好可以检视一下何谓妨碍司法公正的关说
: : 在国外立法例下
: : 妨碍司法公正的正式定义为「具有妨碍司法公正倾向及意图的作为、一连串的作为
: : 或行为」(an act, a series of acts, or conduct which has the tendency and
: : is intended to pervert the course of justice)具体表现在任何一种下列的行为:
: : 中止刑事检控以换取报酬
: : 提出虚假的指控
: : 向调查人员提供虚假的陈述
: : 刻意协助他人逃避追捕
: : 恐吓、胁迫或骚扰证人
: : 证人故意不出席聆讯,以换取报酬
: : 捏造、藏匿或毁灭证据
: : 发布文章,刻意妨碍司法公正
: : 不当地中止检控
: : 使原来可能得以提出检控的法定程序受挫
: Hifree 不愧是懂美国的人,一个实际案例刚好替 hifree 作注脚:
: 来源:
: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Domenici#Department_of_Justice_controversy
: (原文有点长,我重点解说)
: Prior to the 2006 midterm election Domenici called and pressured
: then-United States Attorney for the District of New Mexico David
: Iglesias to speed up indictments in a federal corruption
: investigation that involved at least one former Democratic state
: senator. When Iglesias said an indictment would not be handed down
: until at least December, Domenici said "I'm very sorry to hear
: that" — and the line went dead. Domenici's telephone manners were
: the subject of a later article in The Albuquerque Journal, which
: quoted numerous other sources whom Domenici had treated rudely by
: hanging up after making a point or receiving an unsatisfactory
: answer.
: 简单地说,参议员杜曼尼的竞争对手因为贪污被检察官调查,杜议员就打电
: 话给检察官,希望他赶快处理,最好赶在11月选举前。检察官不鸟他,回覆
: 说最快得12月才能侦结
: Iglesias was fired a little over one month later by the
: Bush Administration. A communication by a senator or House member
: with a federal prosecutor regarding an ongoing criminal
: investigation is a violation of ethics rules.
: 重点是,一个月以後该名检察官就被布希政府开除了!
: In a March 2007
: statement, Domenici admitted making such a call.[20] House
: Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers, D-Mich., issued
: subpoenas to require Iglesias and three other ousted U.S.
: attorneys to testify before Congress.[21]
: Domenici later admitted calling Iglesias, though Domenici claimed
: he never used the word "November" when he called Iglesias about an
: ongoing Albuquerque courthouse corruption case.[22] Domenici has
: denied trying to influence Iglesias, and has hired lawyer K. Lee
: Blalack II to represent him.[23]
: According to the Justice Department, Domenici called the
: Department and demanded Iglesias be replaced on four
: occasions.[24]
: According to The Washington Post, on the day of the firing
: (December 7, 2006) William Kelley, a deputy to then White House
: Counsel Harriet Miers, said in an email that Domenici's chief of
: staff was "happy as a clam" about the Iglesias firing. A week
: later, a Justice Department email to the White House counsel
: stated: "Domenici is going to send over names tomorrow (not even
: waiting for Iglesias's body to cool)."
: 这里的重点是:有关系就没关系,没关系就有关系。你检察官哪有我参议员
: 大?一通电话就把你开除了!
: On April 24, 2008, Domenici was admonished by the Senate Ethics
: Committee for "inappropriately" contacting in 2006 one of the nine
: U.S. attorneys later fired by President Bush.[16]
: 所谓的国会自律,仅值一纸不痛不痒的警告。
: The light punishment came after the committee found “no
: substantial evidence” that Domenici tried to influence attorney
: David Iglesias when he contacted him to inquire about the status
: of a 2006 investigation into corruption charges on a state
: Democratic official. A possible indictment could have buoyed the
: re-election hopes of Rep. Heather Wilson (R-N.M.), who was seeking
: to replace Domenici when the senator retires after his current
: term. Iglesias charged that Domenici and Wilson were pressuring
: him to wrap up the investigation before that November’s
: elections, a violation of ethics rules.[20]
: The Ethics Committee said that Domenici’s phone call to Iglesias,
: in advance of an upcoming election, “created an appearance of
: impropriety that reflected unfavorably on the Senate”.[20] In
: July 2010, Department of Justice prosecutors closed the two-year
: investigation without filing charges after determining that the
: firing was inappropriately political, but not criminal, saying
: "Evidence did not demonstrate that any prosecutable criminal
: offense was committed with regard to the removal of David
: Iglesias. The investigative team also determined that the evidence
: did not warrant expanding the scope of the investigation beyond
: the removal of Iglesias."[26] Domenici said of the closed
: investigation, "The Justice Department has now confirmed what I
: have always said and believed: I never attempted to interfere with
: any government investigation. I am glad that this matter has
: concluded."[26]
: 後面细节就不多翻了。
: 总之,这羣人 (foreign or domestic) 对关说司法个案的态度就是如此。从制度面到现实
: 面,一路走来始终如一。
: 我的心得是,这羣人一旦掌握了权力,大家真的只好个人顾性命。
--
※ 发信站: 批踢踢实业坊(ptt.cc)
◆ From: 111.240.215.124
1F:→ guare:只能说,难怪小布希灰头土脸的下台。 140.123.185.72 09/23 17:07
2F:→ guare:或者换个角度来看,布希开除了拒绝关说的检 140.123.185.72 09/23 17:08
3F:→ guare:察官,马英九是否该效法一下,奖赏陈守惶开 140.123.185.72 09/23 17:09
4F:→ guare:除黄世明,特侦组五上五下? 140.123.185.72 09/23 17:09
5F:→ guare:我提这个案例只是想褒奖hifree一下,因为你 140.123.185.72 09/23 17:10
6F:→ guare:真的很懂美国那套,至少很懂布希和共和党那 140.123.185.72 09/23 17:10
7F:→ guare:套。讲共和党或许不公道,谁晓得民主党没有? 140.123.185.72 09/23 17:11
8F:→ guare:或许可以再请hifree开示一下。 140.123.185.72 09/23 17:11
那我也很想请您开示一下
本案检察官不上诉哪里违法或不当了
如何符合「公务员廉政伦理规范」第二点第(五)款:「指
其内容涉及本机关(构)或所属机关(构)业务具体事项之决定、执行或不执行,且
因该事项之决定、执行或不执行致有
违法或不当而影响特定权利义务之虞。」
而构成违法关说
麻烦正面回答一下好吗?
9F:→ guare:有...之虞的意思应该很清楚吧?本案若林上 140.123.185.72 09/23 17:50
10F:→ guare:诉,一定会再被驳回吗?如果没有100%确定, 140.123.185.72 09/23 17:51
11F:→ guare:只要有1%可能性,这个「虞」就成立。本有可 140.123.185.72 09/23 17:51
12F:→ guare:能被判有罪的案子(第一、二审的确判有罪) 140.123.185.72 09/23 17:52
13F:→ guare:因检查官不上诉而无罪确定,这你要说无「违 140.123.185.72 09/23 17:52
14F:→ guare:法或不当而影响特定权利义务」,反而是我要 140.123.185.72 09/23 17:53
15F:→ guare:请你开示一下了 140.123.185.72 09/23 17:53
1.背信罪无法上诉第三审
2.有无违反商业会计法部分是最高法院发回理由,高等法院应受其拘束
3.更一审判决已认定没有登载不实,违反商业会计法部分不成罪
4.第三审无法自行认定事实
请问你上诉发回的可能性在哪里?
还请明示
16F:推 pennymarkfox:所以hifree认为王金平没有关说(或是 27.245.163.10 09/23 18:07
17F:→ pennymarkfox:游说)对吗? 27.245.163.10 09/23 18:07
至少没有符合「公务员廉政伦理规范」第二点第(五)款所定义的关说
※ 编辑: hifree 来自: 111.240.215.124 (09/23 18:41)
18F:推 svin:无懈可击的推论,真想拿大声公帮你宣扬 123.192.75.210 09/23 18:50
19F:推 svin:柯建铭完全没有得到任何利益,王金平也没卖 123.192.75.210 09/23 18:52
楼上要不要看看这篇的反驳
http://ppt.cc/3FRs
不过重点还不在那
重点是
第 376 条
左列各罪之案件,经第二审判决者,不得上诉於第三审法院。
一、最重本刑为三年以下有期徒刑、拘役或专科罚金之罪。
二、刑法第三百二十条、第三百二十一条之窃盗罪。
三、刑法第三百三十五条、第三百三十六条第二项之侵占罪。
四、刑法第三百三十九条、第三百四十一条之诈欺罪。
五、刑法第三百四十二条之背信罪。
六、刑法第三百四十六条之恐吓罪。
七、刑法第三百四十九条第二项之赃物罪。
背信罪本来就不能是诉第三审了
吵背不背信有啥意义?
22F:→ guare:有正面的论点,有反面的论点,而且文章是法 140.123.185.72 09/23 19:01
23F:→ guare:官或者研究员写的,都是专业人士。这样可以 140.123.185.72 09/23 19:01
24F:→ guare:符合「有...之虞」的条件了吧? 140.123.185.72 09/23 19:02
有人好像没有搞清楚重点喔
第 376 条
左列各罪之案件,经第二审判决者,不得上诉於第三审法院。
一、最重本刑为三年以下有期徒刑、拘役或专科罚金之罪。
二、刑法第三百二十条、第三百二十一条之窃盗罪。
三、刑法第三百三十五条、第三百三十六条第二项之侵占罪。
四、刑法第三百三十九条、第三百四十一条之诈欺罪。
五、刑法第三百四十二条之背信罪
六、刑法第三百四十六条之恐吓罪。
七、刑法第三百四十九条第二项之赃物罪。
背信罪根本不可能上诉第三审
何来符合「有...之虞」的说法?
25F:→ guare:你的意思是说你是台湾超级大法官,人家不管 140.123.185.72 09/23 19:06
26F:→ guare:是台中地院还是研究员,都得听你一句话? 140.123.185.72 09/23 19:07
听我的干嘛?
法条说的那麽清楚
背信罪不得上诉第三审
你还疑问吗?
27F:→ guare:既然正反意见都有,那表示还有争议。如此怎 140.123.185.72 09/23 19:09
28F:→ guare:会没有符合「有..之虞」的条件? 140.123.185.72 09/23 19:09
http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/chengs0112/article?mid=989&sc=1
. 背信罪依刑事诉讼法第376条第5款规定,属不得上诉於第三审法院之罪名。检察官以单一案件具有”上诉不可以分”为由,将背信罪与违反商业会计法一并上诉至最高法院,最高法院亦同此见解而将案件撤销发回。简单的说,检察官认为曹兴诚以违反商业会计法的方法,掏空联电公司(背信罪),两罪之间具有方法与结果的关系,在法律上称为牵连犯,为单一案件,依刑法第55条规定,只论处较重刑的罪名,两者具有不可分的关系。所以在上诉来说,因为两罪具有不可分的关系,所以背信罪的部分也可以跟着违反商业会计法的部分一并上诉。
※ 编辑: hifree 来自: 111.240.215.124 (09/23 19:11)
30F:→ diggershi:检察官有检察官的伦理规范 查了一下... 59.120.184.171 09/23 19:28
31F:→ diggershi:应该是用第四条移送林检察官移送评议会 59.120.184.171 09/23 19:32
32F:→ diggershi:那个条文可没说 "之虞"喔 59.120.184.171 09/23 19:34