作者oneders (S.C.I.E.N.C.E.)
看板medstudent
標題Re: [問題] MORPHINE與DERMOL
時間Wed Nov 25 23:11:31 2009
ㄟ... 小弟不才, 謹把急診的觀點貼出
(疼痛是急診的重要議題... 美國統計60%的急診求診病人, 因為疼痛就診!)
節錄自急診教科書p.259, Tintinalli: Emergency Medicine, 6th edition,
<<American College of Emergency Physicians>>
Meperidine was once the mainstay of pain management in EDs.
Meperidine should no longer be routinely used for acute pain management,
for several reasons:
(1) it is the lowest potency opioid and, as a result, often is underdosed;
potency是opioids最低的, 常常劑量過輕
(2) normeperidine, the metabolite of meperidine, has been shown to cause
central nervous system toxicity in patients with compromised renal
function or those taking monoamine oxidase inhibitors;
Demerol的代謝物, normeperidine, 在腎功能不好或者同時服用MAO inhibitors
的病人, 會顯現出他的中樞神經毒性
(3) normeperidine can produce prolonged states of sedation (up to 48 h in
rare cases);
會造成延長時間的鎮定效果
(4) meperidine is reported to produce more euphoria and may have an
increased risk for addiction when compared with other opioids.
會造成比較多的euphoria, 而產生比較高的成癮機會
另外,
另一個更大本的教科書Rosen, 會有更多的敘述不過就不再列舉了
美國甚至已經有許多急診已經不再使用demerol
急診止痛的drug of choice其實還是morphine, 不是keto或者panadol
只是台灣醫風/民風還尚未習慣
==============
另外一提,
急診的觀點而言, 為了順利治療動作的鎮定麻醉
(procedural sedation and anesthesia, PSA) 首選短效型benzodiazepine
相較於外科系喜愛使用propoful...
急診的standpoint主要之一也是
萬一造成呼吸抑制可以用
flumazenil來馬上reverse
Propoful (p.278)
Amnesia, however, is not reliably produced in doses used for sedation.
(propoful的amnesia效果較無法預測)
The drug possesses antiemetic properties.
Propofol produces significant cardiovascular depression, with dose-related
declines in systolic blood pressure of up to 25 to 40 percent when given
in induction doses. This effect is more pronounced in those with impaired
hemodynamic status and in the elderly.
(propoful降壓效果明顯)
The use of propofol for ED PSA is controversial, and its use outside
the operating room by nonanesthesia personnel may be restricted by hospital
policy.
(在OR裡面用比較安全)
Limited studies using propofol for ED PSA in children and adults have found
a rapid onset of sedation, rapid recovery, and high patient and physician
satisfaction scores.
(infusion一停掉就會很快醒來, 病人/醫師滿意度高)
In doses usually used for PSA, however, analgesic and amnestic agents
may be required, which may result in hypoventilation and potentiate the
already significant hemodynamic effects of propofol.
(較不穩定的病人, 使用propoful較可能會讓呼吸跟循環同受到抑制)
The research agenda and issues surrounding propofol use by the emergency
physician have been delineated.
(急診的場景不常使用啦!!)
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※ 編輯: oneders 來自: 118.166.197.58 (11/25 23:15)
1F:推 WMX:好讚的一系列文章 11/26 00:13
2F:推 cyp001:受教了 <(_ _)> 11/26 00:21
3F:推 silvanus2003:超優的 (拜) 11/26 00:25
4F:推 roy1975:多謝指導..小女子受教了^^ 11/26 00:26
5F:推 lrw:好文!! 11/26 09:57
6F:推 hd:推! 11/26 14:14
7F:推 ponzpons:推! 11/26 21:22
8F:→ hiko745:那我可以順便問個問題嗎,如果是老人家因為infection造成 11/26 22:58
9F:→ hiko745:加上renal fuction不好而有點delirium,晚上灰灰的不睡覺 11/26 22:59
10F:→ hiko745:甚至自拔IC,如果想把他sedation的話可以用啥?(BP還ok,我們 11/26 23:00
11F:→ hiko745:是選了vena啦~因為沒膽子用BZD,這樣ok嗎?) 11/26 23:01
12F:推 Thymus:推! 11/26 23:33
13F:→ Elleria:delirium不建議使用BZD 除了correct 造成delirium的原因 11/27 00:37
14F:→ Elleria:可以考慮antipsychotics 例如seroqual,Haldol,risperidone 11/27 00:39
15F:→ Elleria:寫錯字 是seroquel 11/27 00:40
16F:推 hiko745:對齁~可以給haldol~可是因為haldol有個QT prolong的副作用 11/27 02:51
17F:→ hiko745:所以我之前有看過學長就沒用了,本來想用risperidone,但是 11/27 02:52
18F:→ hiko745:uptodate找了一下找不到risperidone for delirium的dose 11/27 02:52
19F:→ hiko745:所以改用risperidone的話給多少比較好?? 11/27 02:53
20F:推 Elleria:沒用過risperidone XD 11/27 03:01
21F:→ Elleria:不過老人的原則是從最低劑量開始 不論Haldol seroquel也都 11/27 03:02
22F:→ Elleria:是這樣 11/27 03:03
23F:→ Elleria:seroquel 25mg po, Haldol 1/4 amp IM or 1~2.5mg po 11/27 03:06
24F:→ Elleria:by 之前經驗跟精神科照會經驗 11/27 03:06
25F:推 carlchang:Delirium用Vena會更慘.... 11/27 12:03
26F:→ carlchang:因為Vena有Anticholinergic作用,會惡化delirium 11/27 12:04
27F:→ carlchang:Delirium首先當然是找原因.... 11/27 12:05
28F:→ carlchang:CORRECT原因之後,症狀治療的話... 11/27 12:05
29F:→ carlchang:其實不是不能用BZD,只是不建議BZD monotherapy 11/27 12:06
30F:→ carlchang:建議以antipsychotics為主... 11/27 12:06
31F:→ carlchang:bzd只能為輔助 11/27 12:06
32F:→ carlchang:Risperdal用在delirium,通常都1~2mg HS 11/27 12:07
33F:→ carlchang:Haldol QT prolong的作用很低,除了EPS以外,其實很安全 11/27 12:09