作者oneders (S.C.I.E.N.C.E.)
看板medstudent
标题Re: [问题] MORPHINE与DERMOL
时间Wed Nov 25 23:11:31 2009
ㄟ... 小弟不才, 谨把急诊的观点贴出
(疼痛是急诊的重要议题... 美国统计60%的急诊求诊病人, 因为疼痛就诊!)
节录自急诊教科书p.259, Tintinalli: Emergency Medicine, 6th edition,
<<American College of Emergency Physicians>>
Meperidine was once the mainstay of pain management in EDs.
Meperidine should no longer be routinely used for acute pain management,
for several reasons:
(1) it is the lowest potency opioid and, as a result, often is underdosed;
potency是opioids最低的, 常常剂量过轻
(2) normeperidine, the metabolite of meperidine, has been shown to cause
central nervous system toxicity in patients with compromised renal
function or those taking monoamine oxidase inhibitors;
Demerol的代谢物, normeperidine, 在肾功能不好或者同时服用MAO inhibitors
的病人, 会显现出他的中枢神经毒性
(3) normeperidine can produce prolonged states of sedation (up to 48 h in
rare cases);
会造成延长时间的镇定效果
(4) meperidine is reported to produce more euphoria and may have an
increased risk for addiction when compared with other opioids.
会造成比较多的euphoria, 而产生比较高的成瘾机会
另外,
另一个更大本的教科书Rosen, 会有更多的叙述不过就不再列举了
美国甚至已经有许多急诊已经不再使用demerol
急诊止痛的drug of choice其实还是morphine, 不是keto或者panadol
只是台湾医风/民风还尚未习惯
==============
另外一提,
急诊的观点而言, 为了顺利治疗动作的镇定麻醉
(procedural sedation and anesthesia, PSA) 首选短效型benzodiazepine
相较於外科系喜爱使用propoful...
急诊的standpoint主要之一也是
万一造成呼吸抑制可以用
flumazenil来马上reverse
Propoful (p.278)
Amnesia, however, is not reliably produced in doses used for sedation.
(propoful的amnesia效果较无法预测)
The drug possesses antiemetic properties.
Propofol produces significant cardiovascular depression, with dose-related
declines in systolic blood pressure of up to 25 to 40 percent when given
in induction doses. This effect is more pronounced in those with impaired
hemodynamic status and in the elderly.
(propoful降压效果明显)
The use of propofol for ED PSA is controversial, and its use outside
the operating room by nonanesthesia personnel may be restricted by hospital
policy.
(在OR里面用比较安全)
Limited studies using propofol for ED PSA in children and adults have found
a rapid onset of sedation, rapid recovery, and high patient and physician
satisfaction scores.
(infusion一停掉就会很快醒来, 病人/医师满意度高)
In doses usually used for PSA, however, analgesic and amnestic agents
may be required, which may result in hypoventilation and potentiate the
already significant hemodynamic effects of propofol.
(较不稳定的病人, 使用propoful较可能会让呼吸跟循环同受到抑制)
The research agenda and issues surrounding propofol use by the emergency
physician have been delineated.
(急诊的场景不常使用啦!!)
--
※ 发信站: 批踢踢实业坊(ptt.cc)
※ 编辑: oneders 来自: 118.166.197.58 (11/25 23:15)
1F:推 WMX:好赞的一系列文章 11/26 00:13
2F:推 cyp001:受教了 <(_ _)> 11/26 00:21
3F:推 silvanus2003:超优的 (拜) 11/26 00:25
4F:推 roy1975:多谢指导..小女子受教了^^ 11/26 00:26
5F:推 lrw:好文!! 11/26 09:57
6F:推 hd:推! 11/26 14:14
7F:推 ponzpons:推! 11/26 21:22
8F:→ hiko745:那我可以顺便问个问题吗,如果是老人家因为infection造成 11/26 22:58
9F:→ hiko745:加上renal fuction不好而有点delirium,晚上灰灰的不睡觉 11/26 22:59
10F:→ hiko745:甚至自拔IC,如果想把他sedation的话可以用啥?(BP还ok,我们 11/26 23:00
11F:→ hiko745:是选了vena啦~因为没胆子用BZD,这样ok吗?) 11/26 23:01
12F:推 Thymus:推! 11/26 23:33
13F:→ Elleria:delirium不建议使用BZD 除了correct 造成delirium的原因 11/27 00:37
14F:→ Elleria:可以考虑antipsychotics 例如seroqual,Haldol,risperidone 11/27 00:39
15F:→ Elleria:写错字 是seroquel 11/27 00:40
16F:推 hiko745:对齁~可以给haldol~可是因为haldol有个QT prolong的副作用 11/27 02:51
17F:→ hiko745:所以我之前有看过学长就没用了,本来想用risperidone,但是 11/27 02:52
18F:→ hiko745:uptodate找了一下找不到risperidone for delirium的dose 11/27 02:52
19F:→ hiko745:所以改用risperidone的话给多少比较好?? 11/27 02:53
20F:推 Elleria:没用过risperidone XD 11/27 03:01
21F:→ Elleria:不过老人的原则是从最低剂量开始 不论Haldol seroquel也都 11/27 03:02
22F:→ Elleria:是这样 11/27 03:03
23F:→ Elleria:seroquel 25mg po, Haldol 1/4 amp IM or 1~2.5mg po 11/27 03:06
24F:→ Elleria:by 之前经验跟精神科照会经验 11/27 03:06
25F:推 carlchang:Delirium用Vena会更惨.... 11/27 12:03
26F:→ carlchang:因为Vena有Anticholinergic作用,会恶化delirium 11/27 12:04
27F:→ carlchang:Delirium首先当然是找原因.... 11/27 12:05
28F:→ carlchang:CORRECT原因之後,症状治疗的话... 11/27 12:05
29F:→ carlchang:其实不是不能用BZD,只是不建议BZD monotherapy 11/27 12:06
30F:→ carlchang:建议以antipsychotics为主... 11/27 12:06
31F:→ carlchang:bzd只能为辅助 11/27 12:06
32F:→ carlchang:Risperdal用在delirium,通常都1~2mg HS 11/27 12:07
33F:→ carlchang:Haldol QT prolong的作用很低,除了EPS以外,其实很安全 11/27 12:09