作者kenneth0715 (kenneth0715N Nﰩ
看板NBA
標題[翻譯]言之有理的Kobe護航文
時間Sat Feb 26 22:34:34 2005
這是在外國網頁看到,是一名教練Fred Carter的一些看法。我做了些大意的翻譯。
雖然英文程度不是非常好,但基本上不會有影響語意的錯誤。無論是翻譯上的問題
還是文章的內容,都歡迎大家的指教和"理性"的批評^^"
ps.不擅編排,造成閱讀之辛苦還請見諒。 Article
http://www.hoopshype.com/columns/kobe_friedman.htm
-------------------------------
Kobe Bryant (27.8 ppg, 6.6 apg and 6.2 rpg), LeBron James (25.4 ppg, 7.7
apg and 7.1 rpg) and Dwyane Wade (23.5 ppg, 7.3 apg and 5.2 rpg) are three
of the top perimeter players in the NBA. Each ranks in the top ten in
scoring and is a nightly triple-double threat, yet James and Wade are
lauded for making their teammates better while Bryant has been widely
labeled as selfish. Among those who consider that criticism unfair is
veteran NBA player, assistant coach and head coach Fred Carter, who
currently analyzes games for NBA TV.
大意:Kobe LeBron Wade是三名頂尖的後場球員,每晚都是對手的威脅,但在LeBron跟
Wade被認為能讓隊友更好的同時,Kobe卻被貼上自私的標籤。Fred Carter認為這樣的
批判是不公平的。
"For some people perception is reality," Carter said. "The echoed word
becomes the accepted word. It becomes the choice phrase. But he won titles
and he does get the assists. He does get steals and he does get blocks.
He's not a guy who just plays on the offensive end. What happens is that
people have the tendency to echo the words of everyone else.
It's unfortunate."
大意:他認為某些針對Kobe的言論,在經過大家的流傳以後就被接受了,人們總是有
echo the words of everyone else(重複其他人所說的話)的趨勢。
Bryant's field goal percentage is hovering around the .410 mark, which
would be a career low. This is the main statistical ax that critics grind
against Bryant, saying that he is more focused on winning the scoring
title than making his team better.But that argument has flaws, according
to Carter.
大意:Kobe僅四成一的命中率是一把砍向Kobe的數據斧頭,看起來Kobe對於贏得得分
頭銜的喜愛更勝於讓隊友更好。Carter認為這樣的論點是有缺點的。
"Any time a guy is a volume-shooting guy like Kobe Bryant and Allen
Iverson,the shooting percentage is going to be down because they attract
a lot more defensive attention. Spot-up shooters or stand-still shooters,
plays are run for them and that's basically all they can do, spot up and
shoot, so they get pen shots and knock them down. People kind of get
confused with field goal percentages and the quality of the baskets that
you make. Kobe makes a lot of quality baskets.I don't look at his field
goal percentage. I look at the productivity of his shots in terms of the
fourth quarter and what shots he makes then."
大意:像Kobe和AI這種出手次數高的球員他們的命中率總是不高,因為他們吸引了更
多的防守注意力。而他們能做的事太多,不像某些球員只需做好自己份內的工作。
(小編:這讓我想起每當進攻時間快到時,他們的隊員只好把球塞給他們,讓他們
進行與時間競賽的高難度進攻。)Carter不在意那命中率,只看第四節關鍵時刻
Kobe的命中球數。
Bob Chaikin, whose fine statistical research can be found at
bballsports.com,ranks shooting efficiency with a statistic called scoring
field goal percentage. The formula is: (Two point field goals made + 1.5 X
Three point field goals made + Free throws made/2) / (Field goals
attempted + Free throws attempted/2).
大意:像Bob Chaikin就發明了另一種更好的命中率公式: (兩分球命中數+ 1.5 X
三分球命中數+ 罰球命中數/2) / (總出手數+ 總罰球數/2).
This method provides a more complete picture than field goal percentage
does because it accounts for the added value of three-pointers made plus
the points produced by drawing fouls and making free throws.
大意:這方法更能精確表達命中率,因為他算進了製造罰球的數量(小編:罰球越多的人
通常是得到越多的防守壓力的,同時也代表了一個球員的破壞力。)
James (.491) and Wade (.478) have better field goal percentages than Bryant
does,but neither makes as many three-pointers or free throws as Bryant.
Consequently,as of February 22, Bryant's scoring field goal percentage of
.529 is not much worse than James' .551 and Wade's .544.
大意:LeBron跟Wade命中率比Kobe高,但是三分球及罰球的進球數就不如Kobe。
The league average for scoring field goal percentage is around .520, a
figure that Bryant and each of the Laker starters exceed. Bryant is not
merely padding his individual scoring numbers. The defensive attention
that he attracts and his playmaking skills are leading the team to an
above average level of shooting efficiency. This is significant,
especially considering that the other four starters are Chucky Atkins,
Chris Mihm, Lamar Odom and Caron Butler, none of whom has played in even
one All-Star Game. Meanwhile, James and Wade are each teamedwith All-Star
centers. Laker center Mihm, a career journeyman, has benefited greatly
playing alongside Bryant, enjoying career highs in scoring, rebounding and
assists. In addition to their above average scoring field goal percentages,
each Laker starter (other than Bryant) is also posting a career high in
traditional field goal percentage.
大意:湖人隊的命中率是超出聯盟平均的0.520,Kobe所吸引的防守和他製造的機會
使他的隊友有更高的得分效率,更別說他們隊友甚至沒有任何一個打過明星賽。而
LeBron跟Wade的隊友則有。Kobe的每個隊友命中率均為生涯新高。
NBA analyst Fred Carter notes that by getting to the free throw line
frequently Bryant does not just enhance his individual statistics, but
he also creates more free throw opportunities for his teammates and causes
foul trouble for the opposing team.
大意:Carter表示Kobe大量的製造對方犯規,站上罰球線不只是為了增加他的個人
數據,他也替隊友製造了罰球機會及敵對的犯規麻煩。
"When Kobe is out of the offense the Lakers do not get into the bonus as
quickly as they normally do. Check free throws attempted and see how they
were with Kobe playing versus now (when Kobe missed 14 games)."
大意:這可以從Kobe缺席時湖人隊的罰球數下降來觀察。
Another area worth examining is versatility. One would expect that a
selfish player does nothing but shoot. Nine NBA players have amassed
triple doubles this season. Bryantand Chris Webber are tied for second
with four, trailing only Jason Kidd's five. James has two and Wade has
one. James has 18 double doubles, while Wade has 13 and Bryant 12.
大意:我們認為自私的球員只想著投籃,然而Kobe本季的大三元是四次,和C-Web並
列第二名,僅次於J-Kidd。
Bryant's critics are quick to counter that he leads the league in
turnovers at 4.4 per game,but Wade ranks second at 4.2 and James is
seventh at 3.2. MVP candidate and league assists leader Steve Nash ranks
eighth at 3.1. Turnovers have only been recorded by the NBA since 1977-78,
but since that time it has been common for great playmakers such as Magic
Johnson and Isiah Thomas to rank among the league leaders in this category.
Players who commit a lot of turnovers generally fall into one of two
categories: great players who have tremendous scoring/playmaking
responsibilities and big men with bad hands.
大意:另一個Kobe最常遭受批評的就是他的失誤,每場4.4次。然而,Wade每場4.2次,
LeBron每場3.2次,甚至Stere Nash也有3.1次。事實上就連Magic Johnson和Isiah
Thomas發生失誤也是相當普遍的。犯下大量失誤的球員可以分成兩種,一種是那些
責任重大的偉大球員,另一種則是big men with bad hands(就是真的技術不好啦)。
Ultimately, making one's team better is reflected in wins and losses and
most NBA games are decided down the stretch. While great players strive
to keep their teammates involved throughout the game, in the closing moments
it is often necessary to take over the game. Tracy McGrady's 13 points in
the final 35 seconds to defeat the San Antonio Spurs earlier this season
are perhaps the ultimate recent example of this.
大意:讓隊友更好的球員,除了整場可以影響他的隊友之外,關鍵時刻的得分也是不
可或缺的。T-mac的35秒13分便是最近的一個好例子。
Bryant consistently elevates his game in clutch situations and this year
he is leading the NBA in fourth quarter scoring at over 8.5 ppg. Carter
says that Bryant has two traits that enable him to thrive in crucial moments.
大意:Kobe第四節的平均得分是8.5,聯盟排行第一。Carter說有兩個特點使他能在關
鍵時候暴走。
"One is competitiveness. He stays at a high level of competitiveness.
Also, energy level. A lot of players get tired (but) the great players
don't get tired. They have a special level of energy; they can tap that
source and they can still stay at a high level of efficiency and proficiency.
That's Kobe Bryant; he is able to do that. MJ was the same way. There are
certain players who can raise their energy level for the fourth period and
Kobe Bryant can do that."
大意:一個是高度競爭力,另一個是精力。在大部分的球員已經累的時候,偉大的
球員不會,他們可以持續保持在很好的狀態。Kobe跟喬神都是這樣的球員。
Of course, offense is only part of the game. Second-year players James
and Wade haveeach made notable progress this season on the defensive end,
but Bryant has already made the All-Defensive Team five times during his
career, including three First Team selections. Bryant made the All-NBA First
Team and the All-Defensive First Team each of the last two seasons.
大意:當然,攻擊只是比賽中一部分。Lebron跟Wade在他們的第二年表現出極為顯
著的進步,然而Kobe已經入選五次年度最佳防守隊伍,三次第一隊。
When Bryant missed 14 games due to a severe right ankle sprain, the Lakers
struggled to a 6-8 mark and his absence was felt at least as much on defense
as on offense, Laker coach Frank Hamblen points out: "He is one of those guys
who is talking defensively and helping defensively. The way he plays, as
hard as he plays, the other guys feed off that."
大意:當Kobe缺席時,湖人的戰績是6勝8敗。他的缺席不僅影響了全隊的進攻,同樣
影響了防守。湖人隊的教練Frank Hamblen指出, Kobe在場上可以幫助全隊的防
守,而其他的隊友也仰賴著這點,以這點作為能量來源。
TNT analyst Charles Barkley has mentioned on several occasions that he
believes there are only three true superstars in the NBA: Shaquille O'Neal
, Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett. A glance at the Western Conference standings
shows that Garnett's Timberwolves and Bryant's Lakers are among the teams
fighting for the final playoff spot. Garnett has two former All-Stars
playing beside him and basically the same nucleus that made it to the
Western Conference Finals last year, while Bryant's Lakers have been
almost completely reconstituted. Postseason success is the best way to
silence critics. If Kobe Bryant stays healthy for the remainder of the
season, he will have a great opportunity to refute not only those who
question his ability to make his teammates better but also Barkley and
anyone else who denies that he is a true superstar.
大意:Charles Barkley指出聯盟只有三名superstars:Duncan,KG,歐肥。只要Kobe保
持健康,他有很好的機會以實際行動反駁那些批評,同時證明像老巴及其他否認他的
人證明他是superstar。
譯後感想:對於我這樣一個Kobe迷而言,我認為這篇文章是在眾多反Kobe及挺Kobe
文中少數能夠說理清晰,舉證清楚的文章。或許是因為個人挺Kobe的背景讓我更
認同他的看法,但我相信每個人都有不同的角度來切入並加以觀察,並不是一個
專業的籃球人(Fred Carter)所發表的言論就一定是百分百正確。我歡迎大家針對
這篇文章提出不同看法,但盡量不要超過了理性討論的範圍。
--
※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc)
◆ From: 203.73.139.36
1F:推 bestrick:可借轉Kobe版嘛?140.122.241.122 02/26
2F:推 kaido:推一個 210.58.165.157 02/26
3F:推 kober:推...可是我覺得Kobe的出手選擇可以再高一點... 210.192.237.17 02/26
4F:推 abyssalpoet:雖然不算喜歡kobe...不過這篇真的很好!!220.143.154.165 02/26
5F:→ kober:不能把這當成必要之惡...吸引包夾跟有效出手是有平 210.192.237.17 02/26
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7F:推 travacet:大推... 218.170.24.3 02/26
8F:推 uono:不止推文章,還推最後一段 61.223.195.233 02/26
9F:推 Kobe760422:Push! 220.136.27.24 02/26
10F:推 uono:不過那公式是不是可以換成總得分/(總出手+總罰球) 61.223.195.233 02/26
11F:推 TIGER7553:推218.174.144.113 02/26
12F:推 HowManOh:推一下 220.136.38.192 02/26
13F:推 hsusse:kobe 的問題不在於球技 ... 163.25.118.37 02/26
14F:推 rickykobe:推薦這篇文章218.166.210.153 02/26
15F:推 u2gogowin:推推@@220.138.145.224 02/27
16F:推 mynikki:大推~~140.128.142.253 02/27
17F:推 Andy13:大推~ 61.228.90.144 02/27
18F:推 clark3530:嗯...講的不錯...等一下來研究那個公式... 203.73.68.214 02/27
19F:推 aliiori:但我絕的裡面部分論點還是有失公允,Nash失誤3.3218.166.146.217 02/27
20F:→ aliiori:次,可是他住公有11.2次阿!!況且太陽幾乎全場都是218.166.146.217 02/27
21F:→ aliiori:他在持球而已,3.3次失誤幾乎可以說是非人了...218.166.146.217 02/27
22F:推 newseastar:推阿~ 只恨有時候Kobe隊友不準.....>< 61.230.81.114 02/27
23F:推 manpower0166:本不想按推~又不好意思噓...樓上有人說的好 218.171.161.78 02/27
24F:→ manpower0166:kobe的問題不是在球技阿~是態度~做人處事都 218.171.161.78 02/27
25F:→ manpower0166:失敗~就是降 218.171.161.78 02/27
26F:推 aakobe:推樓上..不過6.多助攻就有4.4失誤. 61.62.109.59 02/27
27F:→ aakobe:不知道該怎樣護航 61.62.109.59 02/27
28F:推 superlong:哈哈,開始了。 218.166.35.111 02/27
29F:推 spluto:失誤不只要跟助攻數比 還要看進攻次數 140.116.37.100 02/27
30F:→ spluto:不是只有助攻會失誤... 140.116.37.100 02/27
31F:推 Liubae:不錯啊! 推!140.112.239.110 02/27
32F:→ Liubae:不過Kobe為人處事可能厚到點會更好!140.112.239.110 02/27
33F:推 Olowokandi:manpower同學似乎跟Kobe很熟的樣子140.112.249.227 02/27
34F:推 wangkun:大家都跟Kobe好熟喔...XD 219.84.29.29 02/27
35F:推 aakobe:喔..放話打明星賽的廢柴狀元也來了 61.62.109.59 02/27
36F:推 kobeyang1019:推!140.117.202.148 02/27
37F:推 ianchen91:kobe加油...說不贏討厭你的人...默默幫你加油140.114.200.118 02/27
38F:推 wangkun:Kobe加油阿...... 219.84.29.29 02/27
39F:推 adew913:球技沒得說嘴 就改批評人品||||| 219.91.15.147 02/27
40F:推 aakobe:4成1命中率.聯盟失誤王.espn稱呼為過街老鼠 61.62.109.59 02/27
41F:→ aakobe:沒了歐肥再也沒最後一擊.像今天第四節單節四失誤묠 61.62.109.59 02/27
42F:推 kenneth0715:一場比賽判斷一個人?怎不看上一場對上爵士 203.73.139.36 02/27
43F:→ kenneth0715:對上爵士的逆轉秀? 203.73.139.36 02/27
44F:推 aakobe:怎不看本季被逆轉的多還是逆轉別人的多? 61.62.109.59 02/27
45F:→ kenneth0715:沒歐肥沒最後一擊?是否有合理的論證? 203.73.139.36 02/27
46F:→ aakobe:對手還是少了兩大主將在客場作戰的分區墊底爵士 61.62.109.59 02/27
47F:→ aakobe:你可以自行查PLAYBYPLAY今年有沒有最後一擊成功過 61.62.109.59 02/27
48F:推 kenneth0715:我印象中是逆轉人稍多吧?沒統計不敢肯定 203.73.139.36 02/27
49F:→ kenneth0715:或許沒成功的最後一擊,但這是歐肥的影響? 203.73.139.36 02/27
50F:→ kenneth0715:這個因果關係似乎有點跳脫性的把兩者連起來 203.73.139.36 02/27
51F:推 kobeyang1019:有些人就是看不懂文章 只看的見失誤 命中率140.117.202.148 02/27
52F:→ kissmy:被逆轉是KB一個人的責任嘛??...有啥好爭的 219.84.10.182 02/27
53F:推 aakobe:我說沒歐肥後.是一個事實.沒提到啥影響 61.62.109.59 02/27
54F:→ kobeyang1019:多看幾場湖人比賽就可以發現KOBE的作用 對140.117.202.148 02/27
55F:→ aakobe:至少本年三次以上機會最後一擊失敗無法扳平或超前 61.62.109.59 02/27
56F:→ kobeyang1019:友的影響...以及為何失誤多命中不高的原因140.117.202.148 02/27
57F:推 kissmy:最後一擊失敗又怎樣...至少他敢啊.... 219.84.10.182 02/27
58F:→ kobeyang1019:本文講的真的很好...再推一次!!!140.117.202.148 02/27
59F:推 mynikki:很明顯的anti~~妳自己去開個版吧140.128.142.253 02/27
60F:推 tsaicl:有低能要吠就別理他了 220.140.37.157 02/27
61F:推 adew913:如果Kobe只管得分 不管防守 不管組織 219.91.15.147 02/27
62F:→ adew913:你看他的失誤還高不高 219.91.15.147 02/27
63F:推 superlong:他還是公認的聯盟第一SG,這樣就好了。 218.166.35.111 02/27
64F:推 Windhan:這一季kobe沒啥印象有最後一擊 61.64.140.189 02/27
65F:→ Windhan:但是每當球隊需要他時他就會跳出來主導球隊 61.64.140.189 02/27
66F:推 aakobe:喔.公認?我想失誤王才是公認吧.數據為證 61.62.109.59 02/27
67F:→ aakobe:至於聯盟第一SG?呵呵.T-MAC才是 61.62.109.59 02/27
68F:→ Windhan:這一季很多次逆轉常常是靠著kobe在第四節暴走 61.64.140.189 02/27
69F:→ aakobe:智缺要盲目吹捧請到相關版自HIGH 61.62.109.59 02/27
70F:推 uono:拍謝T-Mac這季打SF居多T-Mac也不會想有你這樣的fans 61.223.195.233 02/27
71F:→ Windhan:沒有公認誰是聯盟第一SG吧 tmac跟kobe都沒說過自 61.64.140.189 02/27
72F:→ Windhan:己是第一 而tmac說 在他還沒拿總冠軍之前 就還沒 61.64.140.189 02/27
73F:推 meloface:aakobe so funny 61.228.1.251 02/27
74F:推 aakobe:U跟T-MAC很熟? 61.62.109.59 02/27
75F:推 kissmy:aa也跟T-Mac不熟吧?? 219.84.10.182 02/27
76F:推 superlong:他只跟Kobe熟而已。 218.166.35.111 02/27
77F:→ Windhan:追上kobe 如果要公認tmac是第一SG 等他拿到總冠괠 61.64.140.189 02/27
78F:→ kissmy:哈哈...我笑了 219.84.10.182 02/27
79F:→ meloface:推好文!!至於來鬧版的可以不用鳥!!FUNNY! 61.228.1.251 02/27
80F:→ Windhan:軍在稱第一吧 61.64.140.189 02/27
81F:→ aakobe:t-mac不認識在下.可我不會像某人猜t-mac不想 61.62.109.59 02/27
82F:→ aakobe:有誰當FAN 61.62.109.59 02/27
83F:→ aakobe:kobe要當第一sg.先拿個個人獎項再說.靠老爸 61.62.109.59 02/27
84F:→ aakobe:沒啥小路用啦.啥人挺啥鳥 61.62.109.59 02/27
85F:→ meloface:................................. 61.228.1.251 02/27
86F:推 wangkun:我心目中有好多第一sg呢...可以不限一位嗎.@@ 219.84.29.29 02/27
87F:推 Windhan:個人獎項??=__=...贏球比較重要吧 61.64.140.189 02/27
88F:推 kissmy:對KB來,說現今幫助湖人成長比拿個人獎項還來重要 219.84.10.182 02/27
89F:→ Windhan:wangkun 哈 推你 61.64.140.189 02/27
90F:→ kissmy:哈~~您所謂的這隻鳥~~~真不錯強啊..... 219.84.10.182 02/27
91F:推 aakobe:沒歐肥後贏球有T-MAC Lebron Wade多嗎? 61.62.109.59 02/27
92F:→ Windhan:呵呵...aakobe真是個有趣的傢伙 61.64.140.189 02/27
93F:→ meloface:aakobe so funny 61.228.1.251 02/27
94F:→ aakobe:對啊.KOBE鳥很強.明星賽觀眾都知道 61.62.109.59 02/27
95F:→ aakobe:一年多了不望給他噓聲."鳥"超強^^ 61.62.109.59 02/27
96F:→ Windhan:如果真的要比較...沒姚明的tmac呢?? 61.64.140.189 02/27
97F:→ kissmy:T-Mac/Wade/James的球隊陣容有比湖人差嘛?? 219.84.10.182 02/27
98F:→ Windhan:我看他罵髒話我笑了 61.64.140.189 02/27
99F:→ kissmy:比起湖人..他們更完整吧..怎能這樣比...!? 219.84.10.182 02/27
100F:推 backid:重點是AAKOBE這種人講的話不用理吧220.136.198.153 02/27
101F:→ kissmy:是啊...就是這樣才會引起大家"熱烈"討論啊^^" 219.84.10.182 02/27
102F:推 aakobe:看到今天的轉播被活塞當猴子耍.觀眾噓聲四起 61.62.109.59 02/27
103F:→ meloface:aakobe真有趣 不錯不錯 61.228.1.251 02/27
104F:→ kissmy:沒關係啦...反正半夜睡不著...一起來討論.. 219.84.10.182 02/27
105F:→ aakobe:單節四失誤還有堆信徒趕來膜拜^^真是信仰堅定啊 61.62.109.59 02/27
106F:→ wangkun:推backid 大家趕緊睡覺覺,等待下一次湖人出征^^ 219.84.29.29 02/27
107F:推 kober:再見了 祝你一路順風囉(淚) 水桶裡的生活很辛苦的 210.192.237.17 02/27
108F:推 kissmy: 祝你一路順風囉(淚) 水桶裡的生活很辛苦的 219.84.10.182 02/27
109F:推 aakobe:恩.希望KOBE的鳥也要藏起來..沒拿到冠軍 61.62.109.59 02/27
110F:→ kissmy:糟糕~~沒推齊~~~XD 219.84.10.182 02/27
111F:→ aakobe:別再找女服務生洩欲了.很恐怖耶. 61.62.109.59 02/27
112F:推 backid:不會多辛苦啦...就算辛苦那種人也住習慣了220.136.198.153 02/27
113F:推 Windhan:哈哈...既然大家都降子說... 61.64.140.189 02/27
114F:推 Windhan:就別再鬧aakobe了 好啦 aakobe~妳說的對啦 好不꘠ 61.64.140.189 02/27
115F:→ Windhan:好 別氣歐~乖啦~ 61.64.140.189 02/27
116F:推 kober:這是另一種的暴力!?XD 210.192.237.17 02/27
117F:推 aakobe:Win我怎會氣呢.看到kobe領軍備活塞再度痛宰二十多 61.62.109.59 02/27
118F:→ kober:推出一連串的水桶內心理輔導課程好了XD 210.192.237.17 02/27
119F:→ aakobe:看到都快笑死了.各位失敗者自high的心理 61.62.109.59 02/27
120F:→ aakobe:我想可以諒解啦.盡情的哭吧.呵呵 61.62.109.59 02/27
121F:推 kobe701013:是在評論我嗎???吵的真兇 61.64.169.193 02/27
122F:推 adew913:Kobe沒歐肥 球隊還有5成勝率...... 219.91.15.147 02/27
123F:推 kober:可不可以給我您的成長過程及心路歷程...要開始寫論 210.192.237.17 02/27
124F:→ kober:文囉...不過要是有一點點髒字 你的ID會出現在 lawꨠ 210.192.237.17 02/27
125F:→ kober:版喔^^b 210.192.237.17 02/27
126F:→ adew913:aakobe口中第一SG也沒辦法一肩挑起勝負吧..... 219.91.15.147 02/27
127F:推 kissmy:adew913大..我們要低調點..不然哪天掉五成以下 219.84.10.182 02/27
128F:→ kissmy:KB就又要被拿出來狂鞭了....XD 219.84.10.182 02/27
129F:推 aakobe:kober我的故事不值錢.你還寫你偶像kobe有錢不嫖 61.62.109.59 02/27
130F:→ aakobe:卻要強姦的心理我想更有研究價值吧..哈哈.. 61.62.109.59 02/27
131F:→ aakobe:還有支持老鼠心理學也是很好的議題 61.62.109.59 02/27
132F:→ kober:支持老鼠!? 我不懂你的意思...!? 210.192.237.17 02/27
133F:推 adew913:某人講話越來越難聽了...... 219.91.15.147 02/27
134F:推 Windhan:aakobe的話拿來笑就好啦 不用去弄懂 呵呵 61.64.140.189 02/27
135F:推 kober:可是...唉唉...看到需要幫忙的人...總是...XD 210.192.237.17 02/27
136F:推 Windhan:還蠻好奇aakobe年紀多大的說 61.64.140.189 02/27
137F:推 kobe701013:aakobe=Anti+heAt kobe的意思吧 61.64.169.193 02/27
138F:推 kober:應該是大學生吧...壓力太大隨著輿論尋求宣洩的典ꬠ 210.192.237.17 02/27
139F:→ kober:型...網路上很有趣的一群人 210.192.237.17 02/27
140F:推 Windhan:我覺得是國中或高中生耶 61.64.140.189 02/27
141F:推 backid:很明顯可以看出來他的目的是想激怒支持KOBE的人220.136.198.153 02/27
142F:推 kober:看他用的字彙語氣就知道了...不會是國中生... 210.192.237.17 02/27
143F:→ backid:不過受限於腦容量的關係,往往說來說去都是那幾句220.136.198.153 02/27
144F:→ kober:爸媽是公務員或著是公司職員 可能有相當的學業壓力 210.192.237.17 02/27
145F:推 Windhan:我覺得國中或高中生才會像他那樣被激怒後不知道괠 61.64.140.189 02/27
146F:→ Windhan:要說什麼只好罵髒話 61.64.140.189 02/27
147F:推 kober:也許他根本沒有被激怒 他可能只是想引導你認為他 210.192.237.17 02/27
148F:→ kobe701013:多逛pc home就知道了 很多國中生 61.64.169.193 02/27
149F:→ kober:被激怒了...智識學派的人 柏拉圖最討厭的類型XD 210.192.237.17 02/27
150F:推 Windhan:呵呵...我不知道說...我只是覺得很好笑 61.64.140.189 02/27
151F:推 kober:是很好笑啊...不過他跟我們一樣是來找樂子的... 210.192.237.17 02/27
152F:→ kober:只是他找樂子的方法...個人不推薦就是XD 210.192.237.17 02/27
153F:推 Windhan:阿...他不找樂子我就少了一個樂子了 61.64.140.189 02/27
154F:推 kober:這樣看來 我們應該希望他不要進水桶!?XD 210.192.237.17 02/27
155F:推 u2gogowin:沒必要理他吧,220.138.145.224 02/27
156F:推 Windhan:呵呵...不好意思...是沒啥必要理他啦 61.64.140.189 02/27
157F:推 kissmy:A...俺洗完澡了..還沒結束啊..^^" 219.84.10.182 02/27
158F:推 kober:退回前言 是高中生XD 210.192.237.17 02/27
159F:→ Windhan:那個aa不見了...剩我們~ 61.64.140.189 02/27
160F:→ kissmy:哈..推Windhan大:他不找樂子我就少了一個樂子了 219.84.10.182 02/27
161F:→ kissmy:是啊...aa你在那啊...繼續討論啊...XD 219.84.10.182 02/27
162F:推 Windhan:他走了~~~T__T~~~不捨~~~ 61.64.140.189 02/27
163F:推 aakobe:喔.我回來了.各位慘敗還能自HIGH 61.62.109.59 02/27
164F:→ aakobe:小弟相當佩服.是已經輸到厚顏無恥了嗎? 61.62.109.59 02/27
165F:推 kissmy:是滴~~我們high是因為我們有Lakers可以看...!! 219.84.10.182 02/27
166F:→ aakobe:支持一個形象低劣的老鼠球員.忍受大家的訕笑 61.62.109.59 02/27
167F:→ kissmy:形象低劣還是有人支持啊..不然怎麼進明星賽 219.84.10.182 02/27
168F:推 Windhan:哇哇哇...樂子回來了!!! 61.64.140.189 02/27
169F:→ Windhan:老鼠回來了~ 61.64.140.189 02/27
170F:推 kissmy:錯~~我們要叫他"老鼠心理學之父"...!!! 219.84.10.182 02/27
171F:→ kissmy:這名子不錯吧....XD 219.84.10.182 02/27
172F:推 aakobe:跟老鼠迷玩遊戲真有趣.戰績也退人氣也退 61.62.109.59 02/27
173F:推 Windhan:是是是...老鼠心理爸爸~剛剛上哪去呀 61.64.140.189 02/27
174F:→ aakobe:失誤增加醜聞增加還是盲目支持.真是好笑 61.62.109.59 02/27
175F:→ aakobe:剛剛看湖人活賽的BT重播.當笑話看 61.62.109.59 02/27
176F:推 kissmy:有啥好笑..這叫一路走來始終如一...看著一個球員 219.84.10.182 02/27
177F:→ aakobe:整場被打的跟龜兒子一樣.尤其"第四節先生"真不是 61.62.109.59 02/27
178F:→ kissmy:的成長...這才是樂趣啊... 219.84.10.182 02/27
179F:→ aakobe:浪得虛名.單節四失誤! 61.62.109.59 02/27
180F:→ kissmy:再說...要是KB每場都這樣失誤..您..再來罵嘛... 219.84.10.182 02/27
181F:→ kissmy:就一場這樣叫叫他龜兒子..您的樣本也太小了 219.84.10.182 02/27
182F:推 Windhan:kissmy別跟他認真啦 61.64.140.189 02/27
183F:→ Windhan:aakobe~你是kobe他爸呀??不然怎麼叫他龜兒子?? 61.64.140.189 02/27
184F:推 kissmy:認真??....我邊打b邊笑說....^^" 219.84.10.182 02/27
185F:→ kissmy:笑說老鼠爸生出龜兒子......(純玩笑,別認真XD) 219.84.10.182 02/27
186F:推 aakobe:windhan國文程度很差喔.小學生嗎? 61.62.109.59 02/27
187F:→ aakobe:幾位盲目支持的樣子好像7788迷喔..呵呵^^ 61.62.109.59 02/27
188F:推 DiCaprio:aakobe去吃屎吧 220.138.41.211 02/27
189F:推 kissmy:請aakobe您先定義何謂"盲目支持".....!! 219.84.10.182 02/27
190F:推 Windhan:不好意思歐...kissmy我誤會你了 61.64.140.189 02/27
191F:→ Windhan:哈 爆了 睡覺去... 61.64.140.189 02/27
192F:推 kissmy:啥..Windhan大您是指.....?? 219.84.10.182 02/27
193F:推 aakobe:爆了.老鼠迷真是力量大啊.可以一起去強姦 61.62.109.59 02/27
194F:→ kissmy:是啊...爆了...睡覺去...aakobe下次在一起討論吧꜠ 219.84.10.182 02/27
195F:→ aakobe:以具體行動支持偶像行為..881我要睡啦 61.62.109.59 02/27
196F:→ Windhan:kissmy我說我誤會你在跟他認真啦 61.64.140.189 02/27
197F:→ kissmy:嗯嗯...好說好說...反正他也不是很"認真"在討論 219.84.10.182 02/27
198F:→ kissmy:盡說些有的沒的.....XD 219.84.10.182 02/27
199F:推 Windhan:呵呵...aakobe別降說...你的功勞最大...掰啦 61.64.140.189 02/27
200F:推 Olowokandi:aakobe連人家的id都可以嗆 無聊140.112.249.227 02/27
201F:推 DrizztMon:看來要進水桶了.... 可以請問下一個ID是啥? 140.112.245.59 02/27
202F:推 u2gogowin:aakobe太無聊了吧T-mac迷肯定是不挺你的~~220.138.145.224 02/27
203F:推 quark:說到水桶的話..前面一些作人身攻擊的才真的該禁.. 61.59.219.194 02/27
204F:推 Friendx:aakobe那種為反而反的言論 根本不值得看 222.157.72.154 02/27
205F:推 vince730828:我不喜歡KB,不過aakobe真的蠻無聊的!廢! 59.104.231.12 02/27
206F:推 tshih:這篇好有趣... 203.73.217.118 02/27
207F:推 yoyolove:aakobe講的話真沒有意義 遜掉了 去吃屎吧218.184.160.252 02/27
208F:推 Lyotard:--------------請勿再回分格線--------------- 61.228.69.68 02/27
209F:推 maigawapa:我王KOBE..加油...眾人皆噓我獨推..你是最強的 140.129.39.132 03/25
210F:→ bigbrother:ㄎㄎㄎㄎㄎㄎㄎㄎㄎㄎㄎㄎㄎㄎㄎㄎㄎㄎㄎㄎㄎㄎ 03/05 12:00
211F:→ whahaha:可惜AD是個廢渣 05/31 00:01
212F:推 christieswei:就是有belief0816這種人 啟智班才有學生可以收 11/21 20:29
213F:噓 KobeFucker :==========丹佛強暴女服務生...幹王狗鼻是也======== 06/12 00:16
214F:→ lindx :我愛摳鼻子 02/01 02:28
215F:推 steven610381: 09/27 21:55
216F:→ tttt :QQ 11/26 00:31
217F:推 hanky0301 : 12/04 10:01
218F:推 poiuj22000 : 朝聖推 12/14 14:35
219F:噓 yunniki : 強暴犯KOBE沒臉打NBA 08/20 02:09