作者RookieRun (Lea Salonga)
看板translator
标题Re: [论译] 一篇我看了五体投地的译文
时间Thu Apr 23 19:41:21 2009
※ 引述《gimogimo (鸡毛爱老虎)》之铭言:
: 标题: [论译] 一篇我看了五体投地的译文
: 时间: Thu Apr 23 02:05:17 2009
: Where wages are not regulated by law, all that we can pretend to determine
: is what are the most usual; and experience seems to show that law can
: never regulate them properly, though it has often pretended to do so.
: 故 庸 之 事 , 苟 非 定 由 国 令 , 则 後 之 考 者 , 只 能 取 其 经 数 而
: 言 。 但 庸 之 高 下 , 有 至 理 定 势 行 乎 其 中 , 而 生 其 不 齐 之 效
: , 强 以 法 令 一 切 整 齐 之 者 , 多 见 其 逆 理 而 败 也 。
: --
我想拉一点原文上下文来讨论:
In 1688, Mr Gregory King, whose skill in political arithmetic is
so much extolled by Dr Davenant, computed the ordinary income of
labourers and out-servants to be fifteen pounds a-year to a
family, which he supposed to consist, one with another, of three
and a half persons. His calculation, therefore, though different
in appearance, corresponds very nearly at bottom with that of
Judge Hales. Both suppose the weekly expense of such families to
be about twenty-pence a-head. Both the pecuniary income and
expense of such families have increased considerably since that
time through the greater part of the kingdom, in some places more,
and in some less, though perhaps scarce anywhere so much as some
exaggerated accounts of the present wages of labour have lately
represented them to the public.
The price of labour, it must be
observed, cannot be ascertained very accurately any where,
different prices being often paid at the same place and for the
same sort of labour, not only according to the different abilities
of the workmen, but according to the easiness or hardness of the
masters. Where wages are not regulated by law, all that we can
pretend to determine is what are the most usual; and experience
seems to show that law can never regulate them properly, though
it has often pretended to do so.
黄字前面的部分只是在佐证一点:原文谈论的脉络确实有提到就
一般工人工资的整体状况做一个数字上的估计,而这个估计值在
已经随着时空发生变化之外,黄字的部分更指出:所谓的估计值
不仅在现象面没有代表性,例如同个地方的同样工作内容,却不
同酬,连造成这种现象纷歧的背後,原因甚至也可能是恣意性的
,例如雇主的性格。
因此,做为这次讨论主角的这段话
前半段,其实是在解释该书这
部分把这种估计值拿来做讨论基础时,其有效性的限制何在──
当时既没有普查,又没有法律规定做为书面证据,在那样的时空
背景下,有志之人能够做的,只有取(一般工人工资的)经常之
数来估算。
假设依此观之,那麽:
Where wages are not regulated by law, all that we can
pretend to determine is what are the most usual;
故庸之事,苟非定由国令,则後之考者,只能取其经数而言。
也就是前半段的问题应该不大。
当然,我猜真正引发争议的是後半段:
and experience seems to show that law can never regulate
them properly, though it has often pretended to do so.
但庸之高下,有至理定势行乎其中,而生其不齐之效,强以法令一切整齐
之者,多见其逆理而败也。
然而综观整段原文的意思,我想提出几点:
首先,这里的「至理定势」,其实可以指原文前面提到,造成表
表面上其他条件相同的工作,在工资上却出现歧异的那些原因(
地域不同、雇主心性等等)。因而与所谓的「看不见的手」这个
市场法则无关。
其次,这里必须再次强调:这句话的
前半段,之所以需要去提到
「法律对工资加以规制」这件事,其实没有主张任何经济原则之
意,只是单纯在解释:为什麽可以用估计值来讨论这部分的主题
而已。而这一点对我们理解这句後半段的关键价值在於:在这後
半段中,Smith本人其实也是「跳出去谈」,是去顺带一提"law
can never regulate them properly, though it has often
pretended to do so."这个心得。所以,虽然可能会让人有硬拗
的感觉,但我还是想要指出这正是为什麽这段话,在原文会用分
号,而译文则直接用句号,来做前後分隔的原因。
若以此为基础──也就是:作者是在顺带抒发他对以法律对工资
加以规制「这件事本身」的看法──来观之,那麽
强以法令一切
整齐之者,多见其逆理而败也,虽然确实不甚紧贴原文(将法律
只是误以为自己能够规制合宜,译为:强去规制,终将失败)绝
对还有修改空间,但就我个人而言,还在可以接受的范围。
最後,在我的理解上,整、齐,皆有规制之意,而大多数的规制
在现象上呈现出来的外观就是「整齐」,譬如对工资加以规制的
结果,会使得具有同样客观要件的工作,在工资价额上呈现齐一
的现象。这可以是这组中文字词拥有的弹性,而不必认为是误译
。仅提供以上个人看法一起讨论。
--
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◆ From: 124.11.64.93
1F:推 Duarte:我倒是觉得 "free market" 的概念是一直在文字里潜藏而贯通 04/23 19:50
2F:→ Duarte:就是因为 free market 所以工资的多少来自双方同意决定. 04/23 19:50
3F:→ Duarte:於是出现了有多有少各地不同的情况. 04/23 19:51
4F:→ Duarte:其他的部份我大致上都同意, 但这点我倒是有不一样的看法:) 04/23 19:52
5F:→ RookieRun:我一开始也是这麽想的XD 不过後来看了那段,有点别的想 04/24 09:07
6F:→ RookieRun:法,但我相信用free market的概念也一定说得通的。 04/24 09:07