https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-new-yorker-interview/has-steve-kerr-had-enoug h Has Steve Kerr Had Enough? Steve Kerr 是否已经受够了？ The head coach for the Golden State Warriors on his future with the team, his co mplicated relationship with Draymond Green, and whether he might give politics a try. 金州勇士队总教练谈他与球队的未来、他与 Draymond Green 复杂的关系，以及他是否可能 尝试从政。 Plainspokenness is an endangered attribute in pro sports. Players and coaches ha ve become maddeningly mealy-mouthed, striving to avoid upsetting agents, sponsor s, owners, fans, thin-skinned politicians, and whoever else might object. Not so with the Golden State Warriors head coach Steve Kerr, who has publicly dubbed D onald Trump a “blowhard” who uses “racist, misogynist” words and is “ill-su ited” to be President. (Trump, for his part, has called Kerr a “scared” “lit tle boy.”) Kerr’s success is as rare as his candor. “I’m the luckiest guy in the N.B.A.’s history,” he said last weekend, as his twelfth coaching season c ame to a close, earlier than desired, during the play-in round. Kerr has won nin e N.B.A. championships—more than any franchise but the Lakers and the Celtics— and counted Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Tim Duncan, David Robinson, Gregg Po povich, Steph Curry, Kevin Durant, and Jimmy Butler among his coaches, teammates , and players. Not a bad group of co-workers. 在职业体育中，直言不讳已经成为一种濒临消失的特质。球员与教练变得令人抓狂地含糊其 词，努力避免惹恼经纪人、赞助商、老板、球迷、脆弱的政治人物，以及任何可能反对的人 。但金州勇士队总教练 Steve Kerr 并非如此，他曾公开称 Donald Trump 是一个「爱吹牛 的人」，使用「种族歧视、厌女」的言词，且「不适合」担任总统。（而 Trump 则称 Kerr 是个「害怕的」「小男孩」。）Kerr 的成功与他的坦率一样罕见。「我是 NBA 历史上最 幸运的人，」他在上周末表示，当时他的第十二个执教赛季在附加赛阶段提早结束。Kerr 已赢得九座 NBA 总冠军——仅次於洛杉矶湖人与波士顿塞尔提克——并曾与 Michael Jord an、Scottie Pippen、Tim Duncan、David Robinson、Gregg Popovich、Steph Curry、Kev in Durant 和 Jimmy Butler 共事过，无论是作为他的教练、队友或球员。这样的同事阵容 可不差。 Butler’s A.C.L. tear, back in January, effectively doomed Kerr’s already slim chances of winning a tenth title with a graying core of star players. Ten rings would put him just three behind Phil Jackson, who was Kerr’s coach on the ninet ies Chicago Bulls team that became the N.B.A.’s first truly global brand. It wa s easy to miss Kerr back then—a slim six-foot-three guard coming off the bench, good for a couple of threes, no dunks. Then he hit the game-winner with six sec onds left to seal the Bulls’ fifth title, in 1997, and made a daring little jok e at Jordan’s expense during the subsequent victory parade. “Phil told Michael , he said, ‘Michael, I want you to take the last shot,’ ” Kerr began. “Micha el said, ‘You know, Phil, I don’t feel real comfortable in these situations. S o, maybe we ought to go in another direction. Why don’t we go to Steve?’ So I thought to myself, Well, guess I’ve got to bail Michael out again.” Jordan, fa mous for taking things personally, just chuckled. Jimmy Butler 在一月时的前十字韧带撕裂，基本上终结了 Kerr 以一群逐渐老化的核心球 星再夺第十冠的微薄希望。若能拿到十枚冠军戒，Kerr 将只落後 Phil Jackson 三枚——J ackson 曾在九○年代执教芝加哥公牛队，那支球队成为 NBA 第一个真正的全球品牌。当时 的 Kerr 很容易被忽略——身高六尺三寸、身形精瘦的替补後卫，能投几颗三分球，但不会 灌篮。直到 1997 年，他在剩下六秒时投进致胜球，为公牛锁定第五座冠军，并在随後的胜 利游行中开了一个大胆的小玩笑调侃 Michael Jordan。「Phil 跟 Michael 说，『Michael ，我要你投最後一球，』」Kerr 开始说。「Michael 说，『你知道的，Phil，我在这种情 况下不太自在。所以，也许我们该换个方向。为什麽不交给 Steve？』於是我心想，好吧， 看来我又得帮 Michael 收拾残局了。」以爱记仇着称的 Jordan 只是笑了笑。 I met Kerr a few days ago at his modest office in the Chase Center, where the Wa rriors play, in San Francisco. He had just finished conducting his annual exit i nterviews with players, staff, and management, following the season’s end. A sm all wooden placard on his desk read “WINNING IS GOOD”—a joking riff, he expla ined, on the line from “Animal House” that “knowledge is good.” The office’ s whiteboard walls, frequently covered in a granddaughter’s doodling, noted Ker r’s “core values”: “COMPETITIVENESS, JOY, MINDFULNESS, COMPASSION.” There w ere also a few roller bags, about which Kerr—whose contract just expired, and w hose future with the organization is an open question—only said, “It’s a long story.” Over the course of two hours, we discussed his hopes for next year, hi s complicated relationship with Draymond Green, the potential benefits of elimin ating the three-point shot, and whether he might give politics a try. Our conver sation has been edited and condensed. 几天前，我在旧金山金州勇士队主场 Chase Center 的一间朴素办公室里见到了 Kerr。他 刚结束球季後对球员、教练团与管理层进行的年度离队面谈。他桌上有一块小木牌写着「WI NNING IS GOOD」（胜利是好事）——他解释说，这是对电影《Animal House》中「knowled ge is good」的一个玩笑式改编。办公室的白板墙上常被孙女的涂鸦覆盖，同时也写着 Ker r 的「核心价值」：「竞争力、快乐、正念、同理心」。旁边还有几个行李箱，而对於这些 行李，合约刚到期、未来仍未明朗的 Kerr 只说：「说来话长。」在两个小时的访谈中，我 们谈到了他对明年的期望、他与 Draymond Green 复杂的关系、取消三分球的潜在好处，以 及他是否可能尝试从政。以下为编辑整理後的内容。 I don’t typically sleep in the childhood bedroom of my interview subjects, but your mom, Ann, was kind enough to host me in yours, in L.A., in 2018, when I wro te a piece about her for the magazine. Now in her nineties, Ann is the director of the Fulbright Visiting Scholar Program in Southern California, a lover of Mid dle Eastern culture, a morning swimmer, a rope swinger, a memoirist, and, as she says, the mother of “two Ph.D.s, an M.B.A., & an N.B.A.” 我通常不会睡在受访者的童年房间里，但你的母亲 Ann 在 2018 年我为杂志撰写她的专题 时，很好心地让我住在你位於洛杉矶的房间。如今已九十多岁的 Ann，是南加州傅尔布莱特 访问学者计画的主任，也是一位热爱中东文化的人、晨泳者、荡绳者、回忆录作家，而且正 如她所说，是「两位博士、一位 MBA，以及一位 NBA」的母亲。 [Laughs.] That’s her line. （笑）那是她的经典台词。 I was saddened to learn that the house where I stayed, and where you grew up, bu rned in the Palisades Fire. What was your childhood like there? 得知我曾住过、也是你成长的那栋房子在 Palisades 火灾中被烧毁，我感到很难过。你在 那里的童年是什麽样子？ Man, what a place to grow up: Pacific Palisades. My dad was a professor of Middl e East politics and got the job at U.C.L.A., and we lived in a couple of other h ouses before my parents found that house. It’s got a panoramic view: Los Angele s all the way up to Malibu and the ocean. It’s amazing. Today there’s no way a professor at U.C.L.A. could afford it. A very different time economically, diff erent time politically. 天啊，那真是个成长的好地方：Pacific Palisades。我父亲是中东政治的教授，在 UCLA 任教，我们在搬进那栋房子之前住过几个不同的地方。那里拥有全景视野：从洛杉矶一路看 到 Malibu 和大海，真的很惊人。现在 UCLA 的教授根本不可能负担得起。那是一个在经济 与政治上都完全不同的时代。 Ann mentioned coming home from a weekend away, during your teen-age years, to fi nd that her potted plants smelled like beer. Ann 提到，在你青少年时期，她有一次周末外出回家後，发现她的盆栽闻起来像啤酒。 That would have been when I was in high school. And, yeah, I may or may not have authorized a party for all my friends and forty or so extra people. 那应该是我高中时候的事。嗯，我可能有，也可能没有，让我的朋友们加上大概四十几个额 外的人在家里开了一场派对。 The family also spent time in Cairo and Beirut, where you were born. 你们家也曾在开罗和你出生的贝鲁特生活过一段时间。 Mostly in the Palisades with intermittent sabbaticals from my dad. We spent time in, let’s see: a year in Aix-en-Provence, in the South of France, when I was i n kindergarten; three years in Cairo. Then back to L.A. When I returned to Cairo , for ninth and tenth grade, my dad was doing research and writing a book and te aching at the American University in Cairo. 大多时间我们住在 Palisades，但我父亲会不定期休假。我们曾在几个地方生活：我幼稚园 时在法国南部 Aix-en-Provence 住了一年；在开罗住了三年；之後回到洛杉矶。等我九、 十年级再回到开罗时，我父亲正在做研究、写书，并在开罗美国大学任教。 Was there a basketball culture in Cairo then? 当时的开罗有篮球文化吗？ I went to an American prep school called Cairo American College. I still have gr eat friends from there. For ninth and tenth grades, I played on the school team. Every year we would fly to Greece, to Athens, to play in the tournament against other schools in the region. That was the highlight. This would have been, like , 1979, 1980. If there was a basketball gym in the entire country of Egypt, we n ever found it. So our games were played on dirt courts. Basketball was not reall y popular in Cairo, but these sporting clubs would field men’s teams and we usu ally were playing against players a lot older than us. And bigger. But we had th e advantage because we all grew up playing basketball. The inverse was true in s occer. The American kids would take on the Egyptian kids at our school and we wo uld just get absolutely destroyed. 我就读一所叫做 Cairo American College 的美式预备学校，我至今仍和那里的朋友保持很 好的关系。九、十年级时，我在校队打球。每年我们都会飞去希腊雅典，参加与该地区其他 学校的锦标赛，那是最精彩的时刻。那大概是 1979、1980 年左右。如果整个埃及有一座篮 球馆，我们也没找到，所以我们的比赛都是在土场上进行。篮球在开罗并不算流行，但一些 运动俱乐部会组男子队，我们通常都要对上比我们年长、体型也更大的球员。但我们有优势 ，因为我们从小就打篮球。足球则相反，美国学生对上学校里的埃及学生时，我们总是被打 得体无完肤。 You learned how to shoot in the wind, I guess? 我猜，你是在风中学会投篮的？ The wind and the pebbles that were on the dirt courts. Later on, I had to deal w ith the gaps in the floor at the Boston Garden. 还有土场上的风和小石子。後来，我还得应付波士顿花园球馆地板上的缝隙。 Your dad, Malcolm Kerr, was assassinated by the Islamic Jihad Organization, a wi ng of Hezbollah, in 1984, in Beirut, where he was the president of the American University of Beirut. He loved the Arab world and attempted to foster cross-cult ural respect and understanding. I’m curious what qualities and interests you in herited from him. 你的父亲 Malcolm Kerr 在 1984 年於贝鲁特遭到真主党旗下的伊斯兰圣战组织暗杀，当时 他是贝鲁特美国大学的校长。他热爱阿拉伯世界，并致力於促进跨文化的尊重与理解。我很 好奇你从他身上继承了哪些特质与兴趣。 I think I inherited his patience. Growing up, we would host people from all walk s of life, back-yard dinner parties, in the Palisades or in Cairo. I was a reall y shy kid. I really never said anything. So I just observed a lot. And I remembe r so many nights where somebody would be dominating the conversation and my dad would just patiently wait. And it always struck me just how humble and quiet he was. He was so smart, but he knew when to speak. And I think I learned a lot obs erving his patience and his dignity. 我想我继承了他的耐心。成长过程中，我们常在 Pacific Palisades 或开罗的後院举办晚 餐聚会，招待各行各业的人。我是个非常害羞的孩子，几乎不说话，所以我观察得很多。我 记得有许多夜晚，总有某个人主导整场谈话，而我父亲只是耐心地聆听。让我印象深刻的是 ，他是多麽谦逊而安静。他非常聪明，但知道何时该开口。我想我从观察他的耐心与尊严中 学到了很多。 A different kind of leadership than you see nowadays. 这和现在常见的领导方式很不一样。 I think we’re as weak as we’ve ever been as a country, at least in a long time , because our leadership is so misguided. There’s a lack of humility, a lack of dignity, a lack of understanding of the world, a lack of embracing other perspe ctives. The belligerence. 我认为我们这个国家现在可以说是很长一段时间以来最脆弱的时刻之一，因为我们的领导方 向错误。缺乏谦逊、缺乏尊严、缺乏对世界的理解，也缺乏接纳不同观点的能力，还充满了 好斗性。 How have you processed the war in Lebanon and Iran right now? 你是如何看待现在黎巴嫩与伊朗的战争？ My dad was killed by Iranian proxies forty-two years ago. I have no regard for t he Iranian regime whatsoever. But the answer does not lie in starting a war and killing innocent people. Imagine being a parent of one of the one hundred and se venty-five girls who died when their school was bombed. Their loss, their suffer ing . . . How are they going to feel about America? Violence begets violence. We ’ve seen it in Israel and Lebanon as well. There was an opening for Israel to h andle their business with the Palestinians diplomatically that would have solidi fied the Abraham Accords and allowed stronger alliances with Arab countries that would have really cornered Iran. Instead, Israel sought revenge for October 7th and now seventy-two thousand Palestinians have been killed and Israeli settlers are taking over the West Bank illegally, with the approval of Israel’s governm ent and the U.S. Ambassador, Mike Huckabee. That’s not a path to any sort of pe ace or security for Israel or the rest of the Middle East. 我父亲在四十二年前被伊朗的代理人杀害。我对伊朗政权毫无好感。但解决之道不是发动战 争、杀害无辜的人。试想，如果你是那一百七十五名在学校遭轰炸丧生的女孩的父母之一， 他们的失去与痛苦……他们会如何看待美国？暴力只会引发更多暴力。我们在以色列与黎巴 嫩也看到了这一点。原本以色列有机会以外交方式处理与巴勒斯坦的问题，这本可以巩固《 亚伯拉罕协议》，并与阿拉伯国家建立更强的联盟，从而真正牵制伊朗。但相反地，以色列 选择为 10 月 7 日进行报复，如今已有七万两千名巴勒斯坦人丧生，而以色列定居者在政 府与美国大使 Mike Huckabee 的支持下，非法接管西岸。这并不是通往以色列或整个中东 任何形式和平或安全的道路。 How did basketball function in your life following your father’s murder? You we re playing at the University of Arizona. Did basketball help you grieve, or dist ract you from grief? 在你父亲遇害之後，篮球在你的生活中扮演了什麽角色？你当时在亚利桑那大学打球。篮球 是帮助你哀悼，还是让你暂时逃避悲伤？ Part of how I grieved. I found out about my dad’s death through a phone call fr om a university colleague at 3 A.M., and I went to practice the next day. It was the worst moment of my life. It was shocking, even though I knew the danger. My dad was so well respected there: so many Arab friends, spoke fluent Arabic. He was fostering good will between America and Lebanon. He was a victim of politica l terrorism, near the very beginning of this current era of Islamic extremist te rrorism and animosity toward America. The Iranian Revolution happened in ’79, w hen we were living in Cairo. 那是我哀悼的一部分。我是在凌晨三点接到一位大学职员的电话，才得知父亲过世的消息， 隔天我还是去练球。那是我人生中最糟的一刻。即使我知道存在危险，仍然令人震惊。我父 亲在当地非常受人尊敬，有许多阿拉伯朋友，也能流利说阿拉伯语。他致力於促进美国与黎 巴嫩之间的善意。他是政治恐怖主义的受害者，而且那几乎正是当前这个伊斯兰极端主义恐 怖活动与反美情绪时代的开端。伊朗革命发生在 1979 年，当时我们住在开罗。 What do you remember? 你记得什麽？ I remember the Shah’s kids were suddenly students at Cairo American College bec ause the Shah was deposed and went to Egypt. So we’re reading about the Iranian Revolution, and the hostages, and all of a sudden there’s these three kids wal king around campus with security. Word got around, but I had no idea of the poli tical significance of that moment. I was just watching the news like everybody e lse, saying, “My God, why are Americans being held hostage in Iran?” That even t, along with the Grand Mosque seizure in 1979, created a backlash against Weste rn thought, Western ideology. Those events were the beginning of what we’re exp eriencing today. 我记得国王的孩子突然成了开罗美国大学的学生，因为国王被推翻後去了埃及。我们一边读 着关於伊朗革命与人质事件的新闻，突然间校园里出现了这三个有保全随行的孩子。消息传 开了，但我当时完全不知道那一刻在政治上的重大意义。我就像其他人一样看着新闻，心想 ：「天啊，为什麽美国人会在伊朗被挟持？」这件事，加上 1979 年的大清真寺事件，引发 了对西方思想与意识形态的反弹。那些事件正是我们今日所经历局势的开端。 When did you realize that you could play in the N.B.A.? 你是什麽时候意识到自己可以打进 NBA 的？ My senior year at Arizona, we had a great team. I started to dream a little bit: maybe I could sneak into the N.B.A. for a year, have a cup of coffee and be abl e to tell my kids I played. 在亚利桑那大学的最後一年，我们是一支很强的球队。我开始有一点梦想：也许我可以混进 NBA 打个一年，短暂体验一下，然後能跟我的孩子说我曾经打过。 You ultimately played for half a dozen teams, including Michael Jordan’s Bulls. 你最终效力过大约六支球队，其中包括 Michael Jordan 所在的芝加哥公牛队。 I came off the bench. I literally never started a single game in five years. I p layed twenty to twenty-five minutes. And I fit perfectly into the offense that P hil Jackson wanted to play, which was the triangle offense. My role was facilita tor, passer, long-range shooter: shoot when I’m open, pass when I’m not, never turn the ball over. I was able to thrive in Chicago based on a set of circumsta nces—ultimately playing next to Michael Jordan and feeding off of him because h e attracted so much attention. 我主要是替补出场。在五年里，我真的从来没有先发过一场比赛。我每场大约打二十到二十 五分钟。而我非常适合 Phil Jackson 想打的进攻体系，也就是三角进攻。我的角色是组织 者、传球者、外线射手：有空档就投，没有空档就传，永远不要失误。在芝加哥，我能够发 挥，是因为一连串条件的配合——最终能与 Michael Jordan 并肩作战，并从他身上获益， 因为他吸引了大量防守注意力。 I was surprised to learn that you punched Michael Jordan during a practice, in 1 995. Your mother described this fistfight to me as the two of you “rubbing elbo ws a bit.” Is that right? 我很惊讶得知你在 1995 年的一次训练中曾经挥拳打了 Michael Jordan。你母亲把这场冲 突形容为你们只是「稍微有点肢体接触」。是这样吗？ I like to say, I hit him in the fist with my eye. 我喜欢说，是我用眼睛去撞他的拳头。 How do you compare Jordan, your teammate, to LeBron James, who entered the leagu e the year you retired? 你会怎麽比较你的队友 Jordan，与你退休那年进入联盟的 LeBron James？ LeBron’s brilliance doesn’t lie in the same skill set that Michael’s did. It lies in more of a holistic game where he dominates with his pace and his athleti cism and his passing. I’ve always felt scoring is secondary for LeBron, but he ’s the greatest scorer in the history of the N.B.A.! LeBron 的卓越之处并不在於和 Michael 相同的技术能力，而是在於更全面的比赛风格，他 以节奏、运动能力和传球主宰比赛。我一直觉得对 LeBron 来说得分是次要的，但他却是 N BA 历史上最伟大的得分手！ Almost incidentally. 几乎是顺便做到的。 Yeah, incidentally. Some of that is longevity: he’s a machine. I mean, I think he’s literally the greatest athlete on the face of the planet and in the course of human history. Playing with Michael, I saw the killer instinct, the emotiona l dominance he had over not only the other team but the officials, the entire ar ena. I don’t see that with LeBron. So they’re different, as far as the emotion al part of it. Everybody came into a series against Michael knowing they were go ing to lose. There’s never been anybody like that. Maybe Bill Russell. But I’v e never felt the same way on a basketball floor as I did with Michael. 对，算是顺便做到的。其中一部分来自他的长青：他就像机器一样。我认为他确实是地球上 ，甚至人类历史上最伟大的运动员。和 Michael 一起打球时，我看到了他的杀手本能，他 在情绪上对对手、裁判甚至整个球馆的掌控力。我在 LeBron 身上没有看到这一点。所以在 情绪层面上，他们是不同的。每个人在系列赛对上 Michael 时，都知道自己会输。从来没 有过这样的人。也许 Bill Russell 算一个。但我在篮球场上从未有过像和 Michael 一起 时那样的感受。 You retired from playing in 2003, after fifteen seasons and five titles, the las t of which you won with San Antonio. I should note that, while you didn’t shoot the volume of threes that players do now, you were very accurate: your career p ercentage of 45.4 from behind the arc is the best in N.B.A. history. Steph’s ca reer number is around forty-two per cent right now. Do you ever rub that in with him? 你在 2003 年结束球员生涯，共打了十五个赛季并拿下五座冠军，最後一冠是在圣安东尼奥 马刺队夺得。我应该补充的是，虽然你没有像现在球员那样大量出手三分球，但你的命中率 非常高：生涯三分命中率 45.4% 是 NBA 历史最佳。Steph 目前的生涯命中率大约是 42%。 你会拿这点去调侃他吗？ Given that he has provided four extra championship rings for my collection, I ha ve not ventured down that path yet. 考量到他帮我多拿了四枚冠军戒，我目前还没走上那条路。 When did you know you’d coach? 你是什麽时候知道自己会当教练的？ When I was playing in college, I thought I would coach. I didn’t think I’d pla y in the N.B.A. I thought, I love the game so much, family of teachers, I’ll pr obably be a coach. 我在大学打球时就觉得自己会当教练。我不认为自己会打进 NBA。我想，我这麽热爱这项运 动，而且来自一个教师家庭，我大概会成为教练。 You felt like you saw the game well? 你觉得自己对比赛的理解很好？ Yeah. And I loved it. I was obsessed. And that played out, unfortunately, in bea ting myself up. It mattered so much to me that I was really self-critical. And I had to learn the hard way, how defeating that was. And so being that obsessed w ith something and that competitive, it helped me, but it hurt me, too. 是的，而且我很热爱，我非常着迷。不幸的是，这表现在我对自己过於苛刻。这对我太重要 了，所以我很常自我批评。我是用很痛苦的方式才学到这样其实会击垮自己。对一件事如此 着迷、如此好胜，既帮助了我，也伤害了我。 How did Gregg Popovich and Phil Jackson influence you? Gregg Popovich 和 Phil Jackson 对你有什麽影响？ Both guys had a similar philosophy, but they went about it in completely differe nt ways. Pop’s a military guy. Phil is a hippie from Montana who wanted to embr ace his Zen side and his love of Native American history. Completely different h uman beings, but they both had this wonderful sense of perspective where they ta ught how important it was to do your absolute best every day to become your best . And at the same time, how meaningless a basketball game actually was in the bi gger scheme of things. They found that balance. 这两个人有相似的理念，但采取完全不同的方式。Pop 是军事风格的人。Phil 则是来自蒙 大拿的嬉皮，拥抱禅宗思想与对美洲原住民历史的热爱。他们是完全不同的人，但都拥有一 种很棒的视角，教导我们每天尽全力成为最好的自己有多重要。同时也让我们明白，在更宏 观的层面下，一场篮球比赛其实是多麽微不足道。他们找到了那个平衡。 I’ve heard speculation that Draymond Green, your temperamental forward, might c oach one day. He’s fascinating: a second-round pick who doesn’t shoot that wel l; who isn’t super athletic or tall; whose box score doesn’t stand out; who’s prone to altercations; but who has also been described as the linchpin of some of the best teams in N.B.A. history. How? 我听说有人猜测你那位脾气火爆的前锋 Draymond Green 有一天可能会当教练。他很有意思 ：一位二轮选秀，投篮不算好；不算特别高或特别有运动能力；数据表现也不突出；容易发 生冲突；但同时又被形容为 NBA 历史上最强球队之一的核心支柱。为什麽？ He’s the best defensive player I’ve ever seen. And that’s saying a lot, given that I played with Scottie Pippen and Dennis Rodman. The modern game demands so much more than it did in the nineties. You have to be able to guard all five po sitions, because there’s so much pace and energy and crossmatches. You race bac k on defense, you’ve got to guard the guy in front of you. And then there’s th e “pick-on” game: the opposing team is going to bring the weakest defender int o every pick-and-roll to gain an advantage. Draymond, he can guard any action, a ny position, any player. And he can also blow up the play behind the play if he ’s not involved in the action because of his brain, his speed, his reach. I thi nk he’s no more than six-five and a half— 他是我见过最好的防守球员。这说明了很多，因为我曾和 Scottie Pippen 和 Dennis Rodm an 一起打球。现代比赛的要求远比九○年代更高。你必须能防守五个位置，因为节奏更快 、能量更高，而且对位更频繁。你快速回防，就得守住眼前的人。还有所谓的「点名战术」 ：对手会在每一次挡拆中把最弱的防守者拉出来利用。Draymond 可以防守任何战术、任何 位置、任何球员。而且即使他不在当前战术中，他也能凭藉他的头脑、速度与臂展破坏整个 战术。我想他大概不到六尺五寸半—— With a seven-foot wingspan. 臂展有七尺。 Seven-one wingspan, incredible strength. He wins every jump ball because he’s q uicker to anticipate what’s happening, which means he’s getting to the rotatio n faster. He’s seeing what’s happening faster. He’s just a step ahead of the other nine guys. 七尺一的臂展，力量惊人。他几乎每次跳球都能赢，因为他更快预判发生的事情，这代表他 在轮转上更快到位。他看懂局势的速度更快。他总是比场上其他九个人快一步。 So, a coach? 所以，他会当教练吗？ I don’t know that he’ll coach. He definitely has the brain for it. I don’t kn ow if he has the patience. He’s an incredibly passionate, emotional guy, and th at passion and energy has frequently gotten him in trouble. And I love him. I th ink he’s a really good-hearted person with an incredible brain, but if he wants to coach he’s going to have to learn how to control some of that emotion, that desire, and that fire that burns within him, and it’s not an easy thing to do. 我不确定他会不会当教练。他绝对有那样的头脑，但我不确定他是否有足够的耐心。他是一 个非常热情、情绪强烈的人，而这份热情与能量常常让他惹上麻烦。我很喜欢他。我觉得他 是一个心地很好、头脑极佳的人，但如果他想当教练，他就必须学会控制内心的情绪、渴望 与那股燃烧的火焰，而这并不容易。 You’ve come to blows— 你们曾经动手过—— Yeah. I mean, people pulling us apart. And in my first five years, we would get into three knockdown, dragouts a year. Part of it was, I just had to show the re st of the team that I’m in charge. You have to do things by a set of standards. It’s a community that you’re building, not just a team—a little society with values and standards and expectations. And then you’re a community that has to police itself. The coach has to demand certain behaviors, certain habits. So th en for a long time we had a truce. I understood him so well. He understood me. B ut this year we had a major blowout in December. He’s such a unique person. The re’s things he’s done that I can never forgive him for, and yet I will do anyt hing for him. 是的，就是那种需要别人把我们拉开的情况。在我前五年执教时，我们一年大概会有三次激 烈冲突。某种程度上，是因为我必须让球队其他人知道这里归我管。你必须按照一套标准做 事。你建立的不只是球队，而是一个社群——一个有价值观、标准与期待的小社会。而这个 社群也必须自我约束。教练必须要求某些行为与习惯。後来我们有很长一段时间维持停战状 态。我非常了解他，他也了解我。但今年十二月我们又爆发了一次严重冲突。他是一个非常 独特的人。有些他做过的事，我永远无法原谅，但我依然愿意为他做任何事。 What Steph Curry does on the court is more readily appreciable. How do you compa re him with Jordan? Steph Curry 在场上的表现更容易被看懂。你怎麽拿他和 Jordan 比较？ He’s an incredible leader. Michael was an incredible leader himself, but it’s an entirely different approach. I mean, Steph’s compassion for his teammates, h is joy in life, his joy for celebrating everybody else’s accomplishments is so powerful. But without Draymond’s competitive edge and fight, I don’t think we win all those championships. They were the perfect complement to each other. The n we had Andre Iguodala, Klay Thompson. When Kevin [Durant] got here, our talent level went to a different level—different planet, really. And I think that the team that won in ’17-18 was as good as or better than any team in the history of the game. 他是一位不可思议的领袖。Michael 本身也是一位不可思议的领袖，但方式完全不同。我的 意思是，Steph 对队友的同理心、他对生活的喜悦、他为别人成功而感到开心的那种喜悦， 力量非常强大。但如果没有 Draymond 的竞争心与拚劲，我不认为我们能赢下那些冠军。他 们两个是完美互补。接着我们还有 Andre Iguodala、Klay Thompson。当 Kevin Durant 加 入时，我们的天赋直接提升到另一个层级——真的像是另一个星球。我认为 2017-18 年夺 冠的那支球队，是史上最强或至少与史上最强并列。 You’ve also coached the U.S. men’s Olympic team. Celtics fans want to know why you didn’t really play Jayson Tatum, one of the league’s superstars, in the 2 024 Olympics. You said that it was a “math problem.” What did you mean? 你也曾执教美国男篮奥运队。波士顿塞尔提克球迷想知道，为什麽你在 2024 年奥运几乎没 有让联盟超级球星之一的 Jayson Tatum 上场。你说那是个「数学问题」，是什麽意思？ We had LeBron James and Kevin Durant ahead of him. Both guys had incredible F.I. B.A. experience. They’re two of the greatest players of all time. Jayson happen ed to be playing the same position as them. If I had just said, “I'm going to p lay the best five guys” or whatever, then, yeah, Jayson’s probably out there. But you’re trying to put together a team. And so, ironically, the guys I played ahead of him were also Boston Celtics: Derrick White and Jrue Holiday. We neede d guys who were on-ball defenders, facilitators, who would make Steph and LeBron and Kevin better. Jayson wasn’t really suited for that role as well as those o ther guys. And that’s the whole point of U.S.A. Basketball: take twelve of the best players on earth and try to make it work. 我们在他前面有 LeBron James 和 Kevin Durant。这两个人都有非常丰富的FIBA经验。他 们是史上最伟大的球员之一。Jayson 刚好打的是和他们相同的位置。如果只是说「我要上 最强的五个人」，那麽对，Jayson 很可能会在场上。但你是在组建一支球队。有点讽刺的 是，我在他之前上场的球员也是波士顿塞尔提克的 Derrick White 和 Jrue Holiday。我们 需要的是能防守持球者、能串联、能让 Steph、LeBron 和 Kevin 更好的球员。Jayson 并 不如那些球员适合这样的角色。而这正是美国篮球的重点：把地球上最好的十二个球员集合 起来，然後让它运作起来。 The conspiracy theorists claim you were trying to foment discord among the Celti cs. 阴谋论者说你是在刻意制造塞尔提克内部的不和。 Yeah. The 2020 election was rigged, too. 对啊，2020 年选举也是被操控的。 Good segue. You’ve been refreshingly outspoken on politics over the years. The day after Trump’s first election, in 2016, you delivered what you called a “ra nt” at a Warriors press conference, describing your disgust and disappointment in the result. 这个转得不错。多年来你在政治议题上直言不讳，令人耳目一新。2016 年 Trump 首次当选 隔天，你在金州勇士队的记者会上发表了一段你称为「抱怨」的发言，表达你对结果的厌恶 与失望。 He was establishing this new tone of communication that we were going to have in this country. I was so disgusted that I didn’t hold back. I’ve learned that I need to be better in terms of representing our organization in a way that I cou ld still let my feelings be known but not get too personal. I’m representing a large group of people. 他正在建立一种我们这个国家未来会采用的新沟通语气。我当时太反感了，所以没有保留。 我後来学到，我需要在代表球队时做得更好，可以表达自己的感受，但不要变得太个人化。 因为我代表的是一大群人。 Are you referring to when you called him a “blowhard” who was “ill-suited” t o the office? 你是指你曾称他为「爱吹牛的人」且「不适合担任总统」那次吗？ “Buffoon,” I think. What really got me was the debates with Hillary [Clinton], where he stalked her from behind. It was so shocking. And there was a live audi ence that reminded me of “The Jerry Springer Show” or something. 我想是「小丑」吧。真正让我受不了的是他和 Hillary Clinton 的辩论，他在後面跟着她 走来走去。那真的很令人震惊。而且现场观众让我想到《The Jerry Springer Show》之类 的节目。 Foreshadowing. 某种预兆。 In my life, up until that time, there had been a sense of decorum expected in th e Presidential campaigns. When McCain ran against Obama, there was a town hall a nd someone said to McCain, “Obama is a terrible man.” And he said, “No, he’s a fine man.” That was what I grew up with. Reagan and Tip O’Neill got togethe r every week—Democratic Speaker of the House, Republican President—knowing the y had to collaborate to get stuff done. There was a sense of decency, that peopl e were watching, that we wanted our politics to embody a certain dignity, regard less of policy, and regardless of even corruption. Nixon gets impeached and both parties agree we can’t have this. We lost that. And I don’t think it’s all T rump’s fault. I think it was happening before Trump: the forces in social media , the forces in our country, the division. 在我人生中，在那之前，总统选举一直都有一种应有的礼仪。当 McCain 对上 Obama 时， 有一场市民大会，有人对 McCain 说：「Obama 是个糟糕的人。」他回答：「不，他是个好 人。」这才是我成长的环境。Reagan 和 Tip O’Neill 每周都会见面——民主党众议院议 长与共和党总统——因为他们知道必须合作才能做成事情。那时有一种体面感，人们在看， 我们希望政治能展现某种尊严，不论政策如何，甚至不论是否存在贪腐。Nixon 被弹劾时， 两党都同意这种事不能接受。我们失去了这些。我不认为全都是 Trump 的错，我认为在他 之前就已经发生了：社群媒体的力量、国内的力量、分裂。 He’s a symptom, in other words? 换句话说，他只是症状？ Yeah, but he definitely has taken advantage of that to gain and to consolidate p ower. And he’s using it to drive a wedge between all of us. He’s not the only one who’s done that, but he’s the President. He’s got the most power. But cal ling the President a buffoon, I kind of regret that, even though I felt it in my heart. It’s better to point out policy decisions, but also American values. Wh at’s wrong with the things that he does. 对，但他确实利用了这种情况来获取并巩固权力。他用这种方式在我们之间制造裂痕。这麽 做的人不只他，但他是总统，拥有最大的权力。不过称总统为小丑，我有点後悔，虽然那是 我内心的真实感受。更好的做法是指出政策问题，以及美国的价值观，指出他做的事情哪里 有问题。 In 2019, Trump called you a “scared” “little boy.” He was referring to your choice not to comment on the N.B.A.’s reprimand of Rockets general manager Dary l Morey’s tweet in support of anti-government protesters in Hong Kong. Obviousl y, Trump relished what he perceived to be hypocrisy on the part of both the N.B. A. broadly, as a purported supporter of free speech and social justice, and you specifically, as one of the freest speakers in the league. You’d declined to ge t involved in the conflict, citing a lack of information on the issue. How do yo u feel about that stance now? 2019 年，Trump 称你为「害怕的」「小男孩」。他指的是你没有对 NBA 对休士顿火箭队总 管 Daryl Morey 支持香港反政府抗议者的推文所做的惩处发表评论。显然，Trump 很享受 他认为的矛盾——无论是 NBA 作为言论自由与社会正义的支持者，还是你作为联盟中最敢 发言的人之一。你当时以对议题了解不足为由拒绝介入。现在你怎麽看那个立场？ I gave a really weak answer. I was trying to walk the line. 我给了一个非常软弱的回答。我试图走钢索。 You regret that? 你後悔吗？ Yeah. I was wrong. We had a lot of players on our team that were doing business in China. A lot of our players would go there off-season. The N.B.A. had this hu ge relationship with China. But, of course, thousands of American companies had trade and relations with China. And so the N.B.A. just got caught up in all of t his and I didn’t handle it well. I was trying to walk the company line and not make the N.B.A. mad. 是的，我错了。我们队上有很多球员在中国有商业活动，很多球员会在休赛季去那里。NBA 与中国有非常庞大的关系。但当然，成千上万的美国公司也和中国有贸易往来。所以 NBA 只是卷入其中，而我没有处理好。我试图遵循公司的立场，不让 NBA 不高兴。 I remember seeing your remarks after the Uvalde school shootings, in 2022, durin g the Western Conference finals—in which you said that our country is held host age by senators unwilling to vote for widely popular and commonsense gun reform —and thinking, first, this is what informed and impassioned advocacy looks like , and, second, that you had a future in politics if you wanted one. 我记得在 2022 年西区决赛期间，在 Uvalde 校园枪击案之後看到你的发言——你说我们的 国家被那些不愿对广受支持且合乎常识的枪枝改革投票的参议员挟持——我当时想，第一， 这才是有资讯、有热情的倡议；第二，如果你愿意，你在政治上会有未来。 Well, that’s flattering and I appreciate it. I don’t have any desire to go int o politics. I love basketball. This is my world. All of my friends and my people are in this world. And whether I keep coaching the Warriors or not, I imagine I ’ll be involved in basketball. 谢谢你的赞美，我很感激。但我没有从政的打算。我热爱篮球，这是我的世界。我所有的朋 友和人脉都在这里。不论我是否继续执教金州勇士队，我都会继续与篮球有关。 Beyond gun violence, what are you most concerned about in today’s America? 除了枪枝暴力之外，你对当今美国最担心的是什麽？ When I finished college almost forty years ago, if you went to school and got a degree, you could get a job and you could buy a house. Now that’s out of reach for most people between student debt and home prices and the economy slanted tow ard the very, very top one per cent. We don’t really have a middle class, and w e don’t have what used to represent the American Dream, which was: you can do b etter than your parents. We’re going backward on all that. Our family is lucky. I’m in a position where my family can live well. But there are millions of peo ple out there, young people who are looking at the horizon and saying, “I did e verything I was told I needed to do, and I can’t buy a house, and I can’t chas e my dream.” Think about what that means for the stability of communities and c ities and a whole country. 将近四十年前我大学毕业时，只要你上学拿到学位，就能找到工作，也能买房。现在，在学 贷、房价以及经济偏向最顶端 1% 的情况下，这对大多数人来说已经难以实现。我们几乎没 有中产阶级，也失去了过去所代表的美国梦——也就是你可以过得比父母更好。我们在这方 面正在倒退。我们家很幸运，我有能力让家人过得很好。但有数百万年轻人望向未来时会说 ：「我做了所有被要求做的事，但我买不起房，也追不了梦。」想想这对社区、城市乃至整 个国家的稳定意味着什麽。 Meanwhile, thanks to huge media deals, global expansion, and sponsorship, the N. B.A. is more profitable and valuable than ever. The average team is now worth fo ur to five billion dollars, with the Warriors valued at around twice that. Baske tball has become the third most popular global sport— 与此同时，拜庞大的媒体转播合约、全球扩张以及赞助所赐，NBA 比以往任何时候都更赚钱 、更有价值。现在每支球队的平均价值约为 40 到 50 亿美元，而金州勇士队的估值大约是 其两倍。篮球已成为全球第三受欢迎的运动—— What’s second? 第二名是什麽？ Cricket. 板球。 O.K. Yeah. Soccer, cricket, basketball. The number of people in India and Pakist an. 好吧，对。足球、板球、篮球。毕竟印度和巴基斯坦的人口很多。 And Steph Curry’s face is probably more recognizable than that of every U.S. se nator, and maybe the Vice-President. 而 Steph Curry 的脸，可能比所有美国参议员，甚至副总统还更容易被认出。 I agree. 我同意。 All of which is great news for Adam Silver and everyone else pulling a paycheck from the league. But I want to ask you about some macro challenges facing the N. B.A., starting with injuries. 这些对 Adam Silver 以及所有从联盟领薪的人来说都是好消息。但我想问一些 NBA 面临的 宏观挑战，先从伤病开始。 Since the 2019-20 season, the top thirty or so highest-paid players have missed between a quarter and a third of games. For most or all of this season, Giannis, Jimmy, Tatum, Lillard, Irving, Embiid, Haliburton, Anthony Davis, and Jalen Wil liams have been sidelined. What can be done? 自 2019-20 赛季以来，薪资最高的约三十名球员缺席了四分之一到三分之一的比赛。本赛 季大部分或整季时间，Giannis、Jimmy、Tatum、Lillard、Irving、Embiid、Haliburton、 Anthony Davis 和 Jalen Williams 都因伤缺阵。可以怎麽改善？ I think we need to play fewer games. I don’t think that’s going to happen, bec ause fewer games is less revenue and you’d have to have everybody agree—player s, coaches, management, some of the investment banks that are funding some of th e teams—and the purchase prices of these franchises now is so out of control th at you’ve got billions of dollars at stake, and nobody who’s counting the bean s wants to shorten the season. But I think we make a ton of money already, and I think we really need to be concerned about the product. We could shave some gam es off the schedule, which would allow for more rest, more practice. 我认为我们需要减少比赛场数。我不觉得这会发生，因为场数减少代表收入变少，而且你必 须让所有人同意——球员、教练、管理层，甚至资助部分球队的投资银行——而现在这些球 队的收购价格已经失控，牵涉数十亿美元的利益，没有人愿意减少赛季长度。但我认为我们 已经赚很多钱了，我们应该更重视产品本身。我们可以减少一些赛程，让球员有更多休息和 训练时间。 How many? 减多少？ I’d say ten. Talking with people who have really researched it, you can do ten, and what that would do for player health. . . . The old N.B.A. fans go, “Well, yeah, but we’ve been playing eighty-two games forever!” But we have the data now that shows the players are running faster and farther than ever before by dr amatic margins because of the three-point shot, because teams crash the offensiv e glass now instead of just turning and running back. Because of the pace, becau se of analytics, we’ve learned that the quicker you can get a shot up, the more efficient your offense is. In the old days, they used to tell us the exact oppo site. What we’ve learned is that the later you go, the worse your efficiency be comes. With all the athleticism, all the switching now, you just want to push th e ball ahead before the defense can get set, too. But what that means is that we ’re playing faster and the players are being pushed to further extremes. So you throw all this stuff into the hopper. Eighty-two games is too many— 我会说减十场。和真正研究过的人讨论後，减十场对球员健康会有很大帮助……老一辈 NBA 球迷会说：「但我们一直都是打 82 场啊！」但现在数据显示，球员跑得比以前更快、更 远，差距非常大，这是因为三分球、因为球队现在会冲抢进攻篮板，而不是直接退防。也因 为节奏与数据分析，我们知道越快出手，进攻效率越高。以前教练教的是完全相反的观念。 现在我们学到的是，拖越晚出手，效率越差。在现在这种运动能力与大量换防的情况下，你 只想在防守还没站稳前快速推进。但这也意味着比赛变得更快，球员负荷被推向更极端。综 合这些因素，82 场真的太多了—— So this isn’t about you wanting to put out of reach your record of seventy-thre e wins in a season— 所以这不是因为你想让单季 73 胜纪录更难被打破—— I don’t think anybody’s ever beating that. [Laughs.] To get back to how we’re looking at things: I have great faith in Adam [Silver], and the league is fille d with great people, but our problems are so exposed now and out in the open for everybody to comment on. I don’t envy Adam’s job. 我不觉得有人能打破那个纪录（笑）。回到整体来看，我对 Adam Silver 很有信心，联盟 里也有很多优秀的人，但我们的问题现在都被摊在阳光下，所有人都可以评论。我不羡慕 A dam 的工作。 There’s also tanking: teams unlikely to make the playoffs are doing all they ca n to lose in order to have the best chance to get a high draft pick. 还有「摆烂」问题：那些不太可能打进季後赛的球队，会尽一切可能输球，以提高拿到高顺 位选秀权的机率。 Yeah. It’s been especially apparent this year because the draft is really good. It hasn’t been as noticeable in past years, but it’s definitely a thing. 对。今年特别明显，因为选秀大年。过去几年没那麽明显，但这确实存在。 I’ve heard various remedies proposed. Are you partial to any? 我听过各种解法，你有偏好的吗？ The solutions are you sort of make an even playing field. Flatten the odds. Or e ven penalizing teams for losing: If you’re in the worst three spots, you can’t get the first pick. But whatever we do—and it’s not really for me to sit here and say, “Here’s the solution,” because it’s way too complex for that—but whatever the league does, we just have to insure our fans that they’re going to get the best competition night in and night out. I’m watching some of these pl ayoff games right now. They’re incredible. Incredible. We have such a great spo rt. We have such a great product. But we’ve got to do everything possible to ma ke sure that the quality of the product throughout the regular season is at its peak. And I think we, like all businesses, are at risk of weakening the product and making it less popular. 解法大概是让环境更公平，比如拉平抽签机率，或者甚至惩罚输球：如果你是倒数前三名， 就不能拿到状元签。但不论怎麽做——这问题太复杂，不是我能在这里直接给答案——无论 联盟怎麽决定，我们都必须确保球迷每天都能看到最好的竞争。我现在在看一些季後赛，比 赛非常精彩，非常精彩。我们拥有一项很棒的运动，很棒的产品。但我们必须尽一切努力确 保例行赛整体品质维持在最高水准。我认为我们和所有产业一样，都有产品变弱、变不受欢 迎的风险。 You mentioned the strong draft class. Can you talk about the challenge of drafti ng well? 你提到选秀大年，可以谈谈选秀困难在哪吗？ You can’t predict a guy’s personality. You can try. Our front office does thes e personality tests, we sit down and have lunch with them—but you don’t really know. You can’t. And you ask people, you ask their trainer, you ask their team mates, you do all kinds of background. But you always get to a point in the draf t where you’re, like, “Should we take the safe guy who doesn’t have much of a ceiling or should we take this other guy despite the fact that he’s got some r ed flags?” Jerry West used to say, “If you’re right forty per cent of the tim e, you’re doing great.” 你无法预测一个人的性格。你可以试着去做。我们的管理层会做性格测试，也会和他们吃饭 聊天，但你其实不会真的知道。你会问很多人，问他的训练师、队友，做各种背景调查。但 选秀时总会遇到一个点，你会想：「我要选那个稳定但上限不高的人，还是选这个有一些风 险但潜力更高的人？」Jerry West 曾说：「如果你有 40% 的命中率，就已经很厉害了。」 Is doping a threat to the N.B.A.’s product, too? 毒品（禁药）对NBA的整体产品也构成威胁吗？ Well, there is testing. There have been guys even this year who have been suspen ded for multiple games for testing positive for some illegal substance. I litera lly have never seen a teammate or one of our players, never known anything. I th ink it probably happens in the N.B.A., but I think it’s exceedingly rare. 有检测制度。今年甚至就有球员因为药检呈阳性而被禁赛多场。我个人从未见过队友或我们 队上的球员有这种情况，也从来不知道任何相关事情。我认为NBA里可能会发生这种事，但 我觉得极为罕见。 Henry Abbott, at the TrueHoop network, has reported how a number of N.B.A. owner s had meaningful ties to Jeffrey Epstein and his financial network—specifically to Apollo Global Management, whose co-founder Leon Black paid Epstein at least a hundred and fifty-eight million dollars. Other Apollo co-founders include owne rs of the Philadelphia 76ers and the Atlanta Hawks, and Adam Silver’s college r oommate is currently Apollo’s president. Do you think that fans should be troub led by this reporting? TrueHoop的Henry Abbott报导过，许多NBA球队老板与Jeffrey Epstein及其金融网络有重要 关联——特别是Apollo Global Management，其共同创办人Leon Black至少支付给Epstein 一亿五千八百万美元。其他Apollo共同创办人还包括费城76人队与亚特兰大老鹰队的拥有者 ，而NBA总裁Adam Silver的大学室友目前是Apollo的总裁。你认为球迷应该对这些报导感到 担忧吗？ This is modern life, right? It’s, like, you can dig into stuff and it might be meaningful and it might be way over the top. I mean, I think the same thing is t rue in business. I don’t think that every single person who had anything to do with Jeffrey Epstein should lose their job and have to sell their company. But i f they had illegal dealings and illicit knowledge of what was happening and didn ’t do anything about it, that’s a different story. But I wouldn’t know the fi rst way how to differentiate that. I don’t follow that story very carefully. So what you’re telling me right now is actually news to me. I didn’t know there were any N.B.A. people who had ties. 这就是现代生活，对吧？很多事情你可以深挖，它可能有意义，也可能被过度解读。我觉得 商业世界也是一样。我不认为每一个和Jeffrey Epstein有过任何关联的人，都应该失去工 作或被迫卖掉公司。但如果他们涉及非法交易、或明知发生什麽却没有采取行动，那就是另 一回事。不过我其实也不知道该如何判断这之间的差异。我没有很仔细追这个事件。所以你 现在跟我说的，其实对我来说是新闻。我不知道NBA有人跟这件事有关联。 There’s an owner whose name’s in there hundreds of times. Of course, as you sa y, there are also people whose names are in the files incidentally. 有一位球队老板的名字出现在文件中数百次。当然，如你所说，也有一些人只是偶然被提及 在文件里。 There has to be a distinction. But I also think that we’ve gotten so far away f rom what actually matters, and that’s the victims and what can we do to insure that this kind of thing doesn’t happen. 必须要做出区分。但我也觉得我们已经离真正重要的事情太远了，那就是受害者，以及我们 能做什麽来确保这种事情不再发生。 I ask because you’re generally quite well informed on things related to basketb all. 我之所以问，是因为你通常对篮球相关的事情非常了解。 I’m not well informed on this. 但这件事我并不了解。 On a lighter note, I wrote a few years ago about the idea of adding a four-point er to the game. Reggie Miller was opposed, but Kyle Korver and Larry Bird were o pen to it. Bird entered the league the same year the three-pointer was added, an d he made the case that it’s always evolving. 换个轻松点的话题，我几年前写过一篇关於在比赛中加入四分球的想法。Reggie Miller反 对，但Kyle Korver和Larry Bird则持开放态度。Bird进入联盟的那一年正好是三分球被引 入的时候，他也认为篮球一直都在演变。 I would never do a four-point play. In fact, I would even consider getting rid o f the three-point line. 我绝对不会设置四分球制度。事实上，我甚至会考虑取消三分线。 As the guy who holds the all-time record for three-point percentage? Come on. 你可是三分球命中率历史第一的人耶？别闹了。 I just think that the game, as it was designed, is really to create the best sho ts possible. That’s why in the early days, you just throw it inside to the big guy. A three-point line came from the A.B.A., in 1979, and I think it was really effective. It makes for an exciting play, but the analytics revolution has crea ted a weird situation where we all know exactly where the highest efficiency sho ts are: layups and corner threes because the corner three is twenty-two feet and not 23.9, like the up above the break. You have this whole no man’s land betwe en those areas. So if you shoot a twenty-two-footer now from the top of the key, that’s considered a really bad shot. I just wonder—and I don’t know if this would work or not—if we got rid of the three-point line, if it would diversify the way everybody would play and create a lot of different creative solutions to basketball. 我只是觉得这项运动原本的设计，是为了创造最好的出手机会。这也是为什麽早期大家就是 把球丢进内线给大个子。三分线是1979年从ABA引入的，我觉得它非常成功，让比赛更有观 赏性。但数据分析革命带来一个奇怪的现象：大家现在完全知道最高效率的投篮点在哪里— —篮下上篮和底角三分，因为底角三分是22英尺，而不是弧顶的23.9英尺。中间出现了一整 块「真空地带」。所以如果你现在在弧顶投22英尺的球，会被认为是很糟的出手。我只是好 奇——我也不知道是否可行——如果我们取消三分线，是否会让大家的打法更多元，并创造 更多不同的战术解法。 Have you ever proposed this to anyone with power? 你有没有跟有权力的人提过这个想法？ No, no, because it’s too out there. And plus, I coach Steph Curry, so I’d rath er wait till Steph’s retired. I think there’s great coaches, and there’s a lo t of creativity, but I wonder if the game would get more creative if we got rid of the three-point line. 没有，因为这想法太超前了。而且我还在执教Steph Curry，所以我宁愿等他退役再说。我 觉得现在已经有很多优秀教练和创意，但我在想，如果取消三分线，比赛会不会变得更有创 造力。 But less of a role for Steve Kerr-type players. 但那样Steve Kerr这种类型的球员就会更没那麽重要了。 Yeah, I wouldn’t make it in the N.B.A. 对，那样我根本进不了NBA。 You have nine N.B.A. championships, from playing and coaching combined, behind P hil, Bill Russell, and Red Auerbach. Has your motivation for a tenth ring ebbed at all? Has the state of the world, your age, anything sort of changed your moti vation toward the game? 你加总球员与教练生涯已经拿下九座NBA总冠军，仅次於Phil Jackson、Bill Russell和Red Auerbach。你对第十冠的动力有减弱吗？世界现况、年龄或其他因素有改变你对这项运动 的动力吗？ No, that stuff is all incredible and very much the result of good fortune in my career. I mean, I played with Michael Jordan, so I got three rings. I played wit h Tim Duncan and David Robinson: I got two more. I was on their teams and I play ed a role, but then I also gained an incredible amount of experience and knowled ge that I could bring to coaching. And then I get to coach Steph Curry and Draym ond and Klay and Andre and all these guys. And Kevin Durant. And it’s, like, “ Oh, my God, how the hell did all this happen?” So I’ve been incredibly blessed and lucky, but it’s not like I display those rings on my wall. I don’t even k now where some of them are. 没有，这些成就都非常不可思议，而且很大程度是职业生涯中的好运。我和Michael Jordan 一起打球，所以拿了三冠；又和Tim Duncan、David Robinson一起，所以又多了两冠。我在 那些队伍里扮演角色，但也累积了大量经验与知识，能带到教练工作里。之後我又执教Step h Curry、Draymond、Klay、Andre Iguodala以及Kevin Durant这些人。你会觉得：「天啊 ，这一切怎麽发生的？」所以我真的非常幸运。但我并不会把那些冠军戒指挂在墙上，有些 甚至我也不知道放在哪里了。 When I was staying with your mom, she said, at one point, “Let me see if I can find one of these rings Steve gave me.” And she couldn’t find it. But she wasn ’t upset. She said, “Well, there’s more important things out there.” Is that your view? 我之前住在你母亲那里时，她曾说：「让我看看能不能找到Steve给我的其中一枚戒指。」 但她找不到。不过她也没有不高兴，只是说：「外面还有更重要的事情。」你也是这样想的 吗？ Yes, but I also want to make sure I still have them. I believe four or five of t hem are in a safe-deposit box. And then I think three or four of them are in my drawers in my closet, honestly. But my point is I never look at them. I’m incre dibly proud of them, but it’s not what drives me. 是，但我也还是想确保它们还在。我相信有四五枚在银行保险箱里，另外三四枚在我衣柜抽 屉里。但重点是我从来不会去看它们。我对它们很骄傲，但那不是驱动我的东西。 What drives you? 是什麽驱动你？ I wake up excited to come to the gym and coach basketball and collaborate with t he staff and see the players and try to help them achieve something. That’s an amazing life. And that’s all that really matters is: Do you enjoy what you do e very day and are you fulfilled? I still am. Winning is obviously much more fun t han losing, but losing is part of it. And this year was our worst season we’ve ever had. No, I take that back: the COVID year, we had the worst record in the l eague. We lost everybody to injury and that was a rough season, but I don’t loo k at it like I’m a failure now, or I was wildly successful then, even though th at’s how everyone measures things. I’m well aware that, like Pop and Phil taug ht us, this is life. This is all part of your existence as a coach, as a human b eing, and you’re going to experience everything. And you want to help people ha ve that perspective and really embrace the things that are going to be there for them every day, which is the joy that comes from competing and the camaraderie that comes from being part of a team. And that stuff occurs even on losing teams . And it’s especially important on losing teams to make sure those things are h appening. 我每天早上醒来都很期待去球馆执教篮球、和教练团队合作、见球员、帮助他们达成一些成 就。这是一种很棒的生活。真正重要的就是：你是否喜欢每天做的事情，并且是否感到满足 ？我现在仍然是满足的。赢球当然比输球快乐，但输球也是一部分。今年是我们最差的一个 赛季。不对，我收回，那应该是疫情那年，我们战绩全联盟最差，球员几乎全伤，那是很艰 难的一年。但我不会因此认为自己是失败的，或过去非常成功，因为这些只是外界的评价方 式。我很清楚，就像Pop和Phil教我们的，这就是人生。这是教练、也是人生的一部分，你 会经历所有事情。你要帮助别人拥有这种视角，去珍惜每天存在的东西，也就是竞争的快乐 与团队的情谊，即使在输球的球队里也存在，而这在输球时尤其重要。 You sound like a guy who wants to come back, and if it’s your choice, then you would. 你听起来像是想继续留下来的人，如果由你决定，你会回来。 This is a really interesting situation, and I’m very respectful of the organiza tion and their place in the universe right now. And I know how this stuff works. Most coaching runs just last a certain amount of time, and then it’s best for everybody to move forward. And what we have to figure out is whether now is that time, because what complicates it is we still have Steph and Draymond. 这是一个很有意思的情况，我非常尊重球队目前所处的位置，也知道这些事情的运作方式。 大多数教练的任期都有一定时间，之後对大家来说继续前进是最好的。但我们要决定现在是 不是那个时间点，因为问题在於我们还有Steph和Draymond。 For another year, right? 还有一年合约，对吧？ Yeah, another year each on their contracts. And I don’t want to abandon those g uys. If Steph and Draymond were retiring this year, I think this would be an eas y decision: we all go out together and the organization takes their new path. Bu t it’s not that easy because I think Steph’s going to play another couple of y ears and I think we can still do some good things together. But these are all co nversations that will happen in the next week or two and we’ll figure it out. A nd whatever happens, it’s going to end well. I know that, because it’s too imp ortant not to. 对，他们各自还有一年合约。我不想离开他们。如果Steph和Draymond今年退役，那会很简 单：大家一起结束，球队进入新阶段。但现在没那麽容易，因为我觉得Steph还会再打几年 ，我们也还能一起完成一些事。不过这些都会在接下来一两周内讨论清楚。无论结果如何， 都会是好的结局，我很确定，因为这件事太重要了，不可能不有好的收场。 - 好长。。。 --

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