Lakers 板


LINE

糟糕我忘了缩起来的连结是啥= =a 等一下会补... 转自Forum Blue and Gold Every Laker fan is also a Laker critic. It is a divine right of the Laker fan to complain if the team does not meet lofty expectations and blow out each opponent. Much has been said and written about the new Lakers defense. But the switch in performance and the magnified switch in fan sentiment regarding the Laker’s defense is probably unparalleled. At the beginning of the season, the new “strong-side zone” defense masterminded by the new Defensive Coordinator Kurt Rambis had lifted the team to #1 in total defense prompting national media attention and admiration. Recently, the same SSZ defense is prompting ridicule from the likes of perennial all-defensive-team stalwart, Mark Jackson: “The Lakers are a bad defensive team…” 每个湖人球迷都是湖人球评。上帝给了每个湖人球迷权利去抱怨湖人的表现 达不到"标准",没办法把每支球队都打啪。最近湖人的防守整天被拿出来讨论讨论再讨论 ,但防守进步的幅度跟粉丝们想像的防守进步幅度好像有点不太平衡....本球季开始时, 被抓去当肯德基爷爷新防守教练的Kurt Rambis规划出来的SSZ - Strong Size Zone (强边/持球边区域?)防守让湖人防守数据爆窜到全联盟第一,高调的吸引各界目光。 而最近,同样的SSZ策略却却被防守派人士如Mark Jackson(07年季後赛球评)批评说 "吼,湖人防守真的有够烂的啦.." It is as if the ’74 Steel Curtain transformed into the ’08 Detroit lions in the span of 4 games. So it is time to strip away the rhetoric and opinions and try to examine this defense objectively and render a fair critique. In so doing, there are at least 3 separate components. (这边不确定)一切就好像在四场比赛之内,湖人从1974年的Steelers(美式足球队)钢铁防守 变成2008年底特律Lions(也是美式足球队,不过本季12败。)一样。该是时间把所有修辞啊, 主观的"我认为"撇开,用公正的角度来看评断。以下分成三个主要部分来探讨。 1. The strategy. The over-all structure of the defense. What is the scheme? What is the objective? 1. 策略。整体防守的组织。到底是什麽风格、什麽目标? 2. Execution. Are the players executing the strategy with effort? 2. 执行。到底球员有没有认真执行这个防守策略? 3. The personnel. Do the players have the skills to execute the strategy? 3. 人才。球员们有这个策略/战术需要的技巧、能力吗? The Strategy. The goal is to take advantage of the new zone defence rules to create a hybrid defense. The strong-side players actually play man-to-man. Ball placement in the wing area draws the weak-side post player to the strong-side mid post who zones off that region, preventing penetration and help either to the high or low post. As Frank Hamblen recently said, each player is playing his man and ½ of another by being ready to provide help for his team-mates. In the beginning of the season, the help was more judiciously applied such as when the opponent had picked up his dribble, or in the corners. This is a trap. The offensive player is put under pressure resulting in sub-optimal results such as errant passes. More recently the help has been coming at all times. This is doubling – not trapping. Doubling John Salmons when he is still has his dribble is not smart. This help is easy to beat with a quick pass out to the top, resulting in defensive scramble, and invariably, an open shot. 先谈策略。SSZ的目标是利用联盟放宽的区域防守规则来做一个混种的防守。强边的 球员事实上打的是一对一盯人防守。当球在左右两翼的时候弱边的禁区球员会移到强边 中位附近,阻断切入和协防高位或低位。就像Frank Hamblen最近说的,一个球员要守 1.5个球员,除了自己该守的还要随时准备去协防。球季初期,协防的球员来的时机 比较正确,通常是当对手停止运球或站在角落。这样的陷阱包夹让对方容易做出错误的 判断,如乱传球之类的。最近,协防的球员则是一直协防。这不是陷阱,这只是包夹。 在鲑鱼还在运球的时候这是一个很靠盃的决定,只要快速传球给弧顶就能让湖人防守 崩溃,进而出现空档。 The result of this constant helping? Reduced steals, open looks and wide open lanes for dribble penetration. If the strategy is of the defense is to pick and choose trap opportunities, the team has not been executing it. 这些随时随地的协防让湖人抄截变少、对方空档、切入变多。如果球队的策略是 在正确的时机做陷阱包围的话,球员们并没有做到。 下面这部分关於Bigs "show"的部分我解读成站出来压迫对方PG 有错请指证 On high screen and rolls, the strategy seems to be, with no regard for the opposition, a hard show by the bigs with the man covering the ball (usually Fisher or Farmar) NOT fighting through or going under the screens but covering the zone between Bynum/Pau and their men until the bigs begin their retreat back to the basket at which time, Fisher/Farmar re-engage with their men. Because they have constant “show” help, Fisher/Farmar are playing their men very tight, trying to disrupt the offense. 对付高档拆,策略似乎是不管对方球员是谁,禁区球员会压迫对方持球员,而防守 持球球员的那个人(通常Farmar 跟Fisher)不推过档拆或是走下位,而是 站在Bynum / Pau跟对方禁区球员的中间,直到Bynum / Pau後退去防守对方禁区球员才 重新对对方PG做贴身防守。 There are two issues problems with this strategy. Any move played without variation, whether in chess, or baseball pitches, will be beaten. The bigs should sometimes NOT show, just to change the rhythm. Second, the tight play by Fisher/Farmar (not the quickest of guards anyway – more later) only make them easier to beat off the dribble even without the aid of a pick. 这个策略造成了两个问题。任何没有做修正的策略,不管是下棋、棒球投手投球 ,都一定会被看破、打败。或许,有的时候我们的C/PF不应该站出来压迫,改变一下节奏 。第二,Farmar跟Fisher两人的贴身防守(两个人都不算高速的控卫,後面会讲)只让对 方更容易加速一下,不用档拆就就绕过他们了。 My observation is that if you had to pick one strategic move causing the Lakers the most problems is their tight-coverage/constant-show on the screen and roll. This strategy is the wrong one for this team and because of it the entire defense breaks down due to the resulting dribble penetration. Dribble penetration exposes the bigs who have to help, bring their man toward the hoop and whether the outcome is a layup, foul, open 3, or offensive rebound, the chances are that the results are not good. 我的观察是这种贴身防守/每次都压迫是湖人最大的问题。对湖人来说,这个策略是 错误的,也因为他整个防守会因为切入而崩溃。禁区球员会因为切入而必须过来协防, 放他们守的球员空档,不管最後结果是上篮、三分空档、还是进攻篮板对湖人来说都 不是好结果。 Execution. I don’t believe that the execution has really changed much throughout the year. Defensive execution is about coaching and basketball IQ. By the time a player has made the NBA and he still has not learned to keep between his man and the hoop while keeping an eye on the ball, it is probably too late for him to learn. There are several Lakers who apparently have not learned this simple skill. One of the reasons for the benching of the stronger, quicker, taller Vlade for Luke is that Luke has these fundamental skills while Vlade does not. Farmar never had these skills and Lamar seems to have lost his. 执行。 我不认为在战术执行上面没有变化太大,因为这是关於教练的指挥跟 篮球智商。当一个球员到达了NBA等级,却还没有学会如何同时看着该防守的人跟球的话 他大概是没救了。可惜的是,似乎不少湖人球员还没有领悟这个简单的技巧...让 更大更快更高的狼人(更快..嗯,有待伤榷?)去温板凳,把蓝蓝路换上来的原因之一 就是蓝蓝路会这项基本技巧,而狼人不会。Farmar从来就没有学会过,而Lamar好像 忘记他的了= = As far as effort, I actually think the players are trying harder than they were at the beginning of the season. But to quote the Wizard, “don’t mistake activity for achievement”. Constant doubling demands a lot of hard work. Unfortunately such indiscriminate activity puts the defense in easy-to-exploit scramble mode. More lazy, but discriminate trapping would be far more effective. 从积极的角度上面来看,我其实认为球员们更认真的想要达到目的,但是就如同巫师 所说的「不要把有认真在做跟做的好混为一谈」。不断的包夹或许需要更多体力, 但是这种无脑的行为让湖人需要不断的冲去关门,比较懒但是比较有脑的陷阱包围会更有 效率。 Personnel. No matter the validity of the strategy and degree of execution. These two factors have to fit the characteristics of the personnel. For the most part, an aggressive trapping defense fits well. In Kobe, Ariza, and Odom, the Lakers have disruptive wing players who can both provide trap pressure and intercept errant passes. Although even here recently (perhaps spurred on by the wager made by several players on highest steals totals) too many steals attempts are being made on passes to the middle rather than cross court. A missed steal on a cross court pass gives team mates a chance to rotate over. A missed steal to a pass to the free throw line to the top of the key creates a wide open lane. 人才。不管防守策略/战术有多好,都一定要跟你现有的人才有所配合。大致上来 讲,这种具有攻击性的陷阱包围还挺不错的。Kobe、Ariza、老二都是具有能够给对方 制造压力以及飞出去断球的球员。最近太多赌博性的抄截(或许跟几个球员下赌注 赌谁抄截数最多有关系)是对传到场中央的传球,而不是对角传球。一个失败的抄截动作 如果是对对角传球的话至少给队友有机会补防,但是对传到罚球线的传球抄截失败的 话则会造成对方轻松上篮。 Where the strategy does not fit with the personnel is the idea that the wing players should constantly funnel their man baseline to the bigs and the aforementioned hard show on the screen and roll. Funnelling the man to the hoop requires having a big that can change the shot without fouling. A Zo, Wallace, even Chandler. 战术不符合人才的地方在於两翼的球员应该把对方逼往底线 ->禁区球员。这种 动作需要一个可以妨碍投篮却又不犯规的大个,如肾斗士、大班,或小钱。 Against the Kings recently, Bynum showed he has simply has not learned how to defend a small attacking the basket without fouling. Bynum’s best defense is against other bigs (Amare, Bogut, Jefferson), not help defence against smalls. He has to decide whether he is going to block the shot, make a hard foul, or get out of the way. Doing none of the three results in feeble denial attempts that results in an and-more often than any 7’ 285 pound center who can dunk without jumping should ever give up. Kwame has shown (and Roy Hibbert of all players has echoed) that merely standing straight up with arms straight in the air is an incredible deterrent. Bynum has to be coached to play help defence with intent and purpose. Surely he must be tired to making a half-hearted attempt to block a small’s layup a step too slow only to be charged for a foul. I know that I am. As I am tired of his inevitable whining about the unjust call. Maybe the wing player should just play good defense, move their feet and draw a charge (heaven forbid) instead of letting their man go base line. 最近的对上国王的时候,Bynum的表现告诉我们他真的不太会防守一个冲到禁区 的小个子。他最好的防守是对上对方的大个,如阿骂、Bogut、Al Jefferson,而不是 帮忙防守小个子。他必须要决定他该去盖火锅、用力犯规,还是让开。犹豫不决只会 造成他想盖又没在认真盖,给对方and 1的次数超过一般 7尺 285磅(约130公斤)不用跳 就能灌篮的中锋该给的。夸米‧奶油手‧布朗(跟Roy Hibbert等人)已经证明了一个 七尺的男人只要站着手举高,对对方来说就是一座很高的障碍了。Bynum需要学会如果 他要补防的话,就要快狠准。他自己大概也对於要去盖小个火锅的时候慢了半步、被 判犯规感到厌倦。我知道我已经看腻这种情况了,就跟他每次都在哀嚎裁判不公一样。 或许两翼的球员应该就尽本分的认真防守,移动脚步、试着做给对方冲撞犯规,而不是 让对方往底线切。 Also, whether it is due to lack of quickness or desire, Bynum simply is unable to show hard and get back to his man. 喔,还有,不管是因为太慢还是不想动,Bynum真的没办法对对方PG压迫然後赶回 去防守自己的对手。 If you are watching the defense intently, the sheer lack of defensive skills and instincts of Farmar is quite shocking. I wrote in the Kings game thread that the defense would be better without Farmar at all and the Lakers playing 4 on 5 as at least then his man might be tempted to shoot the open jumper instead of abusing Farmar at will and driving to the hoop. It is as if his coach had not taught him to watch his man’s belly instead of his eyes or the ball. Every twitch of the ball handler had Farmar jumping until his man decided to take him out of his misery and blow by him. Farmar might be that rare athlete who is fast when running straight with the ball to the hoop while being slow moving laterally, and explosive and strong when rising for a dunk but not when fighting through a pick. 如果你有认真看防守的话,Farmar在防守上之嫩之无脑真的还挺不可思议的。 我在vs. Kings live文(国外的)里写到没有Farmar,让球队4v5可能还比较好,至少 对方PG会想要投篮而不是轻轻松松绕过Farmar去上篮= =。感觉上,好像Farmar的教练 忘了教他眼睛要盯着对方的小腹而不是球或眼睛。对手随便动一动都能让Farmar有紧张 一下,直到他玩腻了,直接过农夫。可怜的农夫可能是百年难的一见的那种球员: 直线往篮框跑的超快,可是横向移动慢的像乌龟;跳起来灌篮的时候具有爆发力跟力量 ,却连个档拆都只能走下位。 Both point guard’s inability to keep their men in front of them and the scramble that the hard show creates should result in the Defensive Coordinator adjusting and changing the strategy. 两个PG防守都这样、湖人因为大个跑出去压迫需要不断补防协防关门是很 大的问题,Kurt Rambis应该做出一点调整。 My suggestions on what this change could be are: 我的建议是... 1. The default defense for screen roll should be for the bigs not to show and the guard to go under the screen. I would much rather have Udrih taking long jump shots or trying to initiate the offense from the three point line than having a straight line to the basket. Show occasionally to mix it up. 基本上,预设的档拆防守应该是C/PF不压迫对方PG,自己PG走下位。让Udrih等人 投三分球或从三分线外组织至少比让他冲进禁区好。偶而可以压迫一下。 2. If you show, rarely do it with Bynum. And never do it if a Bynum/Farmar combo is the defense. 当你真的要压迫的时候,尽量不要让Bynum去压迫。还有,绝对不要让Farmar 跟Bynum这个组合去做压迫... 3. Do show with Lamar. He is the best show help defender on the team. His screen and roll defense against Tony Parker 2 seasons ago was a revelation. When Lamar is on the floor, put him against the big that usually sets the high screen and roll. 要压迫给Lamar压迫。他是队上压迫协防能力最好的球员。两个球季前他对法国跑车的 协防可以说是神来一笔。当Lamar在场上的时候,让他去守爱玩高档拆的球员。 4. Whatever you do. Change is up. 不管怎麽样,做出调整就对了啦ˊˋ 5. Consider putting Ariza on the point. Much like San Antonio, make the point guard shoot over a taller quicker player who can play off him as a result of his size. Considering the dearth of wings who can play from the post, if Parker isn’t exposed on defense neither will be Fisher. 考虑把Ariza丢去跟对方PG互尬。就像马刺一样,让对方PG对上一个更快更高、不需 要做压迫防守就能达到效果的球员。如果Parker可以这样做的话,Fisher应该也可以。 6. Play straight man defense sometimes. Again, change it up. The current defense is akin to an all out blitz. This works for a while but then the offense will screen pass you to death and eventually figures out a blocking scheme to kill you over the top. The triangle is fluid, changing and morphing to adapt to the defense. Why can’t the defense adapt to the offense? 有的时候还是打盯人防守就好。还是一样,偶而做出调整。目前的防守基本上是有效果 一段时间後一被看破就容易被人玩到死。三角战术是瞬息万变的,为什麽防守不能像 进攻一样? Despite the “sky is falling” laments from the fan base I think we should take heart in the performance so far. Think of the first 23 games as practice for a new kind of hybrid defense. Constant practice has made them better at it but constant use has made them vulnerable to the opposition. Now it is time to use it as just one of their many options in a multi-dimensional, adaptive defense that leverages the strengths of their personnel whilst hiding the players’ natural weaknesses. 虽然球迷们不断哀嚎着「天空要掉下来了」,我认为我们可以把这前23场当作 战术实地演练(俗称练球)来看。不断的练习让他们更熟悉,但是不断的使用让他们很容 易挂掉。该是时候把这个战术加到战术列表里面跟其他防守策略一起使用,如此才能 达到善用自己优势、掩盖自己缺点。 —Bill Bridges 原文作者 Bill Bridges 翻译员Solid4 见鬼了这篇翻好久Orz||| 翻到後面开始恍神了,有错请指证,欢迎重翻/修改,因为个人认为真的翻的很烂Orz --



※ 发信站: 批踢踢实业坊(ptt.cc)
◆ From: 74.131.16.180
1F:→ Solid4:原文 http://0rz.tw/b459K 12/17 04:51
2F:推 YamagiN:好几个重点都提得超清楚 推 12/17 05:42
3F:→ YamagiN:Odom协防能力的确让他在场上时的湖人防守更好 但也被花妈 12/17 05:44
4F:→ YamagiN:给扯了回去- - Kobe Fisher那无头苍蝇式的包夹一定要修正 12/17 05:44
5F:→ YamagiN:他两乱包乱站已经导致队友都不知道该怎麽防守了 12/17 05:45
6F:推 avaron:这篇好!!!!很多死穴都有提到~本来已经万念俱灰了,现在又有 12/17 06:27
7F:→ avaron:动力了!!!冲阿!!快调整阿~ 12/17 06:28
8F:推 goldenlen:推~ 之前嚐到甜头养成不好的习惯了 12/17 07:38
9F:推 sheng0812:推 希望在圣诞节前 能打出防守的态度 12/17 08:08
10F:推 s0414:推!! 12/17 08:46
11F:推 jjoy88:有点到死穴阿..後卫过的太爽...协防又不知协去哪里.. 12/17 09:04
12F:推 Benzos:外电推~ 12/17 09:12
13F:推 brianlue:推~ 真的是说到重点了 12/17 09:44
14F:→ RAGERACER:让对方後卫投外线...是忘了Mike Bibby了吗? 12/17 09:55
15F:→ Solid4:放投三分是针对Udrih,我想对Bibby应该要用Lamar压迫吧? 12/17 10:14
16F:推 scq2389: 12/17 10:23
17F:推 Benzos:应该是说有的人不一定要用压迫防守免得被切豆腐 12/17 10:30
18F:→ Benzos:太执着一种防守策略 容易被看破手脚 12/17 10:31
19F:推 loveinmars:推 12/17 10:32
20F:推 originbook:这篇写得真棒 12/17 10:42
21F:推 jolin713:我也觉得湖人好像很坚持在守这个半区域的防守,或许真的 12/17 10:47
22F:→ jolin713:有在练兵的感觉,另外协防真的很乱,常常守到最後都是两 12/17 10:48
23F:→ jolin713:人同时去补同一个位置,而最大的乱源我个人认为还是fish 12/17 10:49
24F:→ jolin713:他去补防的位置真的太奇怪了,Kobe怪是他会偷懒,Fish则 12/17 10:50
25F:→ jolin713:是真的很奇怪,不是偷懒的问题,而是很努力的跑到不正确 12/17 10:50
26F:→ jolin713:的位置做协防 12/17 10:51
27F:推 hikaruton:精辟的对症下药~希望能尽快改进(祈祷) 12/17 11:09
28F:推 DrizztMon:推 12/17 11:24
29F:→ BeanBryant:这篇许多论点都有切到病处..真的是要改进! 12/17 12:05
30F:推 mikehu:太感谢了 12/17 12:18
31F:推 lihporex:这篇不错,虽然Ariza拿去当primary defender有点可惜 12/17 12:54
32F:→ lihporex:但Farmar相对来说是个不差的secondary defender 12/17 12:55
33F:→ lihporex:而Ariza的对人防守技巧比Farmar好上100倍 XD 12/17 12:56
34F:推 duncannctu:推~ 12/17 14:22
35F:→ iam88:希望对您有帮助 http://go2.tw/goz 03/20 20:03







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