作者Beanoodle (津崎似超人平匡先生)
看板Eng-Class
标题[文法] 会话的文法
时间Thu Jan 27 21:44:35 2022
大家安安
乳题
刚在听一篇日常会话的文法
不过觉得时态怪怪的
https://i.imgur.com/p8xwkWa.jpg
听会话的确是念were
为什麽未来式不是用are呢？
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1F：推 enggys: 语意有巧妙的差别... 用 "we are going to" 暗示已经成团 01/28 10:15
2F：→ enggys: 了, 即使你不能来, 也计画好要作些什麽事情了. 用 "we we 01/28 10:15
3F：→ enggys: re going to" 暗示还差你一个才能成团, 如果你不来, 原本 01/28 10:15
4F：→ enggys: 计画好的事情就不能作了. 後者能表达出较强的期待, 加上 01/28 10:15
5F：→ enggys: 一点情绪勒索 XD 01/28 10:15
7F：推 enggys: Pascal 可能没注意到, 这里会让中文母语者困惑的点, 是在 01/28 12:58
8F：→ enggys: 於 "语用" 而不是 "语意" ^_^ 01/28 12:58
10F：→ enggys: 您觉得这三句在语意上有没有差异呢? 01/28 15:11
11F：→ enggys: 1. We are going to do something tomorrow. 01/28 15:11
12F：→ enggys: 2. We were going to do something tomorrow. 01/28 15:11
13F：→ enggys: 3. We decided to do something tomorrow. 01/28 15:11
15F：→ enggys: 的确就是一连串的情境啊, 前面的说法不能让 Linda 早点来 01/28 16:24
16F：→ enggys: , 才接着说出 "红字部分" 要她晚点还是要过来. 这种说话 01/28 16:24
17F：→ enggys: 技巧双方都了解, 所以我最早推文说的语意只能 "暗示" 而 01/28 16:24
18F：→ enggys: 非 "明讲", 因为双方心里都有谱後面对话可能会有其他发展 01/28 16:24
19F：→ enggys: . 大家以中文沟通时应该都懂, 换成英文不会就不懂了吧. ( 01/28 16:24
20F：→ enggys: 还是我又过度解读惹) 回到原 po 的问题点, 上述三句的差 01/28 16:24
21F：→ enggys: 异, Pascal 解释给您了吗? 01/28 16:24
23F：→ enggys: I think you forgot to include the adverb "tomorrow" i 01/28 17:39
24F：→ enggys: n the questions to Pascal, which is what caused OP's 01/28 17:39
25F：→ enggys: confusion in the first place. My first sentence means 01/28 17:39
26F：→ enggys: that we have a plan for tomorrow, and it's highly li 01/28 17:39
27F：→ enggys: kely that we'll stick to that plan. The second senten 01/28 17:39
28F：→ enggys: ce implies that there may be a change of plan. The th 01/28 17:39
29F：→ enggys: ird sentence simply states that the decision was made 01/28 17:39
30F：→ enggys: in the past. Please consider including those three s 01/28 17:39
31F：→ enggys: entences for the sake of clarity, if you wish to ask 01/28 17:39
32F：→ enggys: Pascal again. 01/28 17:39
33F：推 enggys: 题外话, 英语相关问题推荐去 StackExchange 或 Quora 提 01/28 18:10
34F：→ enggys: 问, 那边有专板, 也有众多语言专家会解答. 别的地方可能 01/28 18:10
35F：→ enggys: 要碰点运气, 不小心就会像 ptt 车/房/股板一样, 上班族跑 01/28 18:10
36F：→ enggys: 去向中学生请教 XD 先祝各位虎年行大运喔. 01/28 18:10
37F：推 cuylerLin: 我的看法跟 scju 大一样，单纯字面上来看就只是在说那 01/28 18:48
38F：→ cuylerLin: 个决定是过去的，根本没有额外情勒的成分，实际对话的 01/28 18:48
39F：→ cuylerLin: 时候那句话可以因语气改变让人觉得或不觉得那是情勒， 01/28 18:48
40F：→ cuylerLin: 而且说真的情勒是 an objective experience on the rec 01/28 18:48
41F：→ cuylerLin: eiver's end，口说不是微积分或理论股价这种 determini 01/28 18:48
42F：→ cuylerLin: stic science，within the possible realm of interpre 01/28 18:48
43F：→ cuylerLin: tations of a sentence, any one of them is plausible 01/28 18:48
44F：→ cuylerLin: , but some are, of course, more likely to happen th 01/28 18:48
45F：→ cuylerLin: an others, suggesting not that there is some defini 01/28 18:48
46F：→ cuylerLin: te yardstick with which we could judge the likeliho 01/28 18:49
47F：→ cuylerLin: od of an interpretation, but that the concept of "b 01/28 18:49
48F：→ cuylerLin: estness" should function more or less like a shifti 01/28 18:49
49F：→ cuylerLin: ng window of all possible ones, with them collectiv 01/28 18:49
50F：→ cuylerLin: ely modulated by the given contextual immediacy. 01/28 18:49
51F：→ enggys: 我有些好奇两位对那三个例句的解读各为何呢? 这一串讨论 01/28 19:04
52F：→ enggys: 显然就是因为解读不同而引起的. 01/28 19:04
53F：推 oosh0329: 我今天跟Stacy讨论，决定明天出去玩，但Linda说她不能去 01/28 19:17
54F：→ oosh0329: 我今天跟Stacy讨论，原本决定明天出去玩，但Linda说她不 01/28 19:17
55F：→ oosh0329: 能去... 01/28 19:17
56F：→ oosh0329: 中英文肯定是不一样，但如果拿这两句去问中文母语者： 01/28 19:17
57F：→ oosh0329: 他们明天的计画有改变吗？ 01/28 19:17
58F：→ oosh0329: 我相信两句话都不会一面倒都同一个答案。然而第二句的 01/28 19:17
59F：→ oosh0329: 「原本」这两字把明天出去的计画改变的机率大幅提升 01/28 19:17
60F：→ oosh0329: 对Pascal来说，were going to就是过去的一个决定这麽单 01/28 19:18
61F：→ oosh0329: 纯，类似於"太糟了吧！我们都决定要租电影跟订披萨了！" 01/28 19:18
62F：→ oosh0329: 但如果当天是为了Linda生日所办的Sleepover趴 01/28 19:18
63F：→ oosh0329: 那麽were going to代表的意义可能就不一样了 01/28 19:18
64F：→ PPmYeah: e大的解读是对的 01/28 22:11
65F：→ PPmYeah: were going to 暗示 Stacy 预期从 "Are you free tomorro 01/28 22:12
66F：→ PPmYeah: w night?" 这问题当中 得到的回覆是 "Yes" 的; 01/28 22:12
67F：→ PPmYeah: 所以得到"No, I'm not." 的回覆後, 原本已经计画好 01/28 22:13
68F：→ PPmYeah: 并可能告诉 Linda 的活动已经泡汤, 成为旧信息 01/28 22:13
69F：→ PPmYeah: 但之所以选择依旧说出来, 确实有较强的失望语气在里面 01/28 22:14
70F：→ PPmYeah: 也就是e大说的: 原本已把你(Linda)假定成团员的意思 01/28 22:14
71F：→ PPmYeah: (打电话之前的预期心理) 01/28 22:15
72F：→ PPmYeah: 如今计画少了一人, 就不能确定 rent a movie and order 01/28 22:15
73F：→ PPmYeah: pizza 会不会继续进行下去 ...是情勒(积极希望对方改变主 01/28 22:16
74F：→ PPmYeah: 意) 或失望(被动接受结果)的解读其实需要听实际的对话才 01/28 22:16
75F：→ PPmYeah: 能得知了 01/28 22:16
76F：→ PPmYeah: 喔看了後面还有未完的对话: Can your parents find...(ry 01/28 22:19
77F：→ PPmYeah: 应该可以直接确定是偏向e大说的情勒(或者说强烈希望对方 01/28 22:20
78F：→ PPmYeah: 重新考虑)的语气了 01/28 22:20
79F：→ yoson: 这相当於 我们「本来」打算 rent a movie and order pizza 01/28 22:47
80F：→ yoson: 的那个「本来」罗 01/28 22:47
81F：→ yoson: 至於这个「本来」代表什麽意涵，我会觉得是让语气更委婉， 01/28 23:05
82F：→ yoson: 不要让Stacy觉得 We will do it without you anyway. 01/28 23:05
84F：→ cuylerLin: 痾... from time to time... lol 01/30 17:40
85F：推 enggys: 结果被 moderator 文质彬彬地 "各不打五十大板" XD 所以 01/30 17:49
86F：→ enggys: Stacy 说的话有可能包含暗示; 也有可能 Stacy 没想要作暗 01/30 17:49
87F：→ enggys: 示, 但自己当下也不知道她的话可以包含暗示 XD 也就是说 01/30 17:49
88F：→ enggys: 我们要和 Stacy 够熟才能懂她这句话的意思. 但这似乎否定 01/30 17:49
89F：→ enggys: 了不少从教材学英文的价值 XD 01/30 17:49
90F：→ enggys: I'll let cuyerlin to figure out the meaning of that p 01/30 17:51
91F：→ enggys: hrase himself ^_^ 01/30 17:51
92F：→ cuylerLin: Well, you're too sweet. You don't have to worry abt 01/30 18:01
93F：→ cuylerLin: me. Hope you find what you were looking for on tha 01/30 18:01
94F：→ cuylerLin: t forum ^_^ 01/30 18:01
95F：→ enggys: I wasn't really worrying about you, but now I kinda d 01/30 18:15
96F：→ enggys: o because there are two grammar mistakes in your last 01/30 18:15
97F：→ enggys: sentence. 01/30 18:15
98F：推 enggys: I'm sorry, that was a cheap shot. We all make grammar 01/30 21:42
99F：→ enggys: mistakes from time to time. 01/30 21:42
100F：→ enggys: I suppose we all have better things to do than having 01/30 21:43
101F：→ enggys: petty fights on bbs. My parents were wondering why I 01/30 21:43
102F：→ enggys: kept peeking at my phone at the dinner table ^_^ 01/30 21:43
103F：→ enggys: Here's wishing everyone a happy Chinese new year. I'l 01/30 21:43
104F：→ enggys: l see y'all after the holidays. 01/30 21:43