作者Geigemachen ()
看板Atheism
标题Re: [闲聊] 一个有趣的反石头论证
时间Sun Dec 7 21:54:10 2008
※ 引述《oolontea (极乐娃娃)》之铭言：
: 那假设问上帝：
: 你能不能自杀呢?
: 这就和创不创造没关了吧??
: 我想这是 全能 这个名词定义的问题吧
: 全能是只我所要求的你都做得到，
: 还是必须在某种条件下才做得到
你说对了，你的思路非常清楚。
基督宗教所谓的全能属於”在某种条件下才做得到”，
而不是”根据自己意志就绝对可以自相矛盾”的上帝。
提摩太後书 2 Timothy
2:13 ..因为祂不能背乎自己。
2:13 ..αρνησασθαι γαρ εαυτον ου δυναται
to contradict/disavow because himself not He is able
=> because he is not able to contradict himself
这句已经说明神”不能”(is not able/ου δυναται)”自我矛盾”。
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◆ From: 118.168.165.155
※ 编辑: Geigemachen 来自: 118.168.165.155 (12/07 21:58)
※ 编辑: Geigemachen 来自: 118.168.165.155 (12/07 21:58)
※ 编辑: Geigemachen 来自: 118.168.165.155 (12/07 21:59)
※ 编辑: Geigemachen 来自: 118.168.165.155 (12/07 21:59)
1F：嘘 getout:那最好不要用这麽容易误解的词…上帝只能做他能做的事… 12/07 23:39
2F：→ Geigemachen:我本人尽量不使用让人误解的词汇,不过词汇定义仍要厘清 12/08 00:30
3F：→ Geigemachen:如MathTurtle所说,自相矛盾本来就不应该考虑在内 12/08 00:31
”全能”的定义如下：
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnipotent#Meanings_of_omnipotence
Meanings of omnipotence
Between people of different faiths, or indeed even between people of the same
faith, the term omnipotent has been used to connote a number of different
positions. These positions include, but are not limited to, the following:
A deity is able to do anything that is logically possible for it to do[1].
A deity is able to do anything that it chooses to do[2].
A deity is able to do anything that is in accord with its own nature (thus,
for instance, if it is a logical consequence of a deity's nature that what it
speaks is truth, then it is not able to lie).
Hold that it is part of a deity's nature to be consistent and that it would
be inconsistent for said deity to go against its own laws unless there was a
reason to do so.[3]
Under many philosophical definitions of the term "deity", senses 2, 3 and 4
can be shown to be equivalent. However, on all understandings of Omnipotence,
it is generally held that a deity is able to intervene in the world by
superseding the laws of physics, since they are not part of its nature, but
the principles on which it has created the physical world.
※ 编辑: Geigemachen 来自: 118.168.165.155 (12/08 00:34)
※ 编辑: Geigemachen 来自: 118.168.165.155 (12/08 00:35)
※ 编辑: Geigemachen 来自: 118.168.165.155 (12/08 00:36)
※ 编辑: Geigemachen 来自: 118.168.165.155 (12/08 00:36)
※ 编辑: Geigemachen 来自: 118.168.165.155 (12/08 00:37)
※ 编辑: Geigemachen 来自: 118.168.165.155 (12/08 00:37)
4F：→ krisnight:能不能自杀跟自由意志有什麽关系？ 12/08 07:31
5F：嘘 getout:这种说法基督教徒特别爱用吧，从前还有所谓的慈爱不是一般 12/08 09:34
6F：→ getout:人的慈爱，是基督教自己所谓的慈爱…实在该建议基督教自己 12/08 09:35
7F：→ getout:立一套翻译机，把自己爱讲的话翻成一般人不会误解的话… 12/08 09:36
你应该思考，你到底是不是真的了解你所批判的东西，还是搞不清楚状况就狂批。
网路上已经那麽多文献可当翻译机，你自己没查清楚定义就要发问也客气些，
你就不该高估自己对术语的理解程度。你不狂批狂骂狂嘘，别人也不想对你凶。
※ 编辑: Geigemachen 来自: 118.168.164.69 (12/08 22:50)
※ 编辑: Geigemachen 来自: 118.168.164.69 (12/08 22:53)
※ 编辑: Geigemachen 来自: 118.168.164.69 (12/08 22:53)
8F：嘘 eric1997:你引以论证的那"本书" 本身就有问题了 12/26 07:40
9F：嘘 eric1997:你怎不思考你到底是在信什麽 12/26 07:57