這裡有人有反駁意見，我幫忙整理了一下，可參考 http://www.socialforce.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=6878&postdays=0& postorder=asc&highlight=%AC%FC%B0%EA+%A7f%A8q%BD%AC+%B4%B2%BCu&start=700 Cyril 發表於: 2004/03/23 13:10 看不下去,我來好了 順便告訴我那些站怎麼上去,我越來越愛和范藍的朋友抬槓了,反正他們無理取鬧, 怎麼辯都能輕鬆贏,欺負起來好爽!! > NVG2 寫到: > 渾蛋泛統"飯桶"寄給我的文章 > [quote="犯籃] > 我的朋友是美籍華僑，同時之前也是執業10年的急診室醫生。他根據他的經驗對 > 陳水扁中槍案寫了一篇他的觀感與看法，希望大家用理性的眼光去看這篇文章。 > From me, Emergency Medicine Doctor with 10 years of experience: > 我本人是一位具有10年以上經驗的急診醫療醫師 我是畢業才快10年的台灣小醫師(不在美國,不代表我的看法就比較不專業吧),不過 我走過外科,急診,和內科,夠了吧!!! > All GSW's are high energy wounds. It means that GSW will cause extensive > bruising along the edges of the wound almost immediately. In the picture, > where is the bruising on both of them? > 所有的槍擊傷口都是屬於高度灼傷的傷口.這表示傷口會在瞬間將傷口的邊緣燒焦. > 從這幾張照片看起來，握看不到這現象.. 記者會前就已經告訴你比較血腥的照片不會公開,如果你是專業醫師,請問那幾張照片 是清創(debridement)前還是清創後,你居然看不出來,請問你哪裡畢業的啊?? 清創完的傷口還有你說的燒焦邊緣??你是故意把專業知識忘記了嗎? > GSW's are almost never symmetrical nor linear. They are round and small, > Even if they are shot directly from the side, it’s impossible to create > a linear wound because the bullet often tumbles while traveling towards > the target. The exit wound is usually bigger than the entrance. Why does > his wound look like someone just took a knife and cut it open? Did they > get the idea from Japanese cartoons? Think of using a tooth-pick to poke > an orange at high speed. See if you can make a symmetrical linear cut. > You can not!! > 槍傷的傷口通常是不對稱而且非直線.通常是圓而小.做算是差身而過.因為子彈在飛 > 行過程是翻滾的所以不可能會造成直線形傷口.子彈穿出的地方的傷口會比進去的地 > 方來的大.為何阿扁的傷口看起來就像是被刀子割到的？難道他們日本的切腹片子看 > 多了嗎？想像妳用一根牙籤以高速度去戳一個橘子.你可以將那橘子造成對稱而且線 > 形的切痕？跟你說，不可能！ 理由跟上面一樣,我相信原來的傷口可能是不規則的,但是外科清創本來就是為了方便 縫合及美觀,當然是直線啊??你到底縫過傷口沒啊?實習醫師畢業前如果連這樣的清創 和縫合都不會,開完刀居然縫出歪七扭八的傷口,我想他一定畢不了業的啦,何況當天 在場的大老們??這種說法只能騙沒有醫學常識的人吧?(只是你是何企圖??) > How can Lu still be standing after been shot in the knee? The knees are > major weight wearing joint in our body. NO ONE I have ever seen got shot > in the knee could still be standing!! > 呂秀蓮居然能夠膝蓋中彈而站立如常！要知道膝蓋是全身重量最主要的支撐點，我 > 生平沒有看到過一個人膝蓋中彈還能站立的... 不好意思,支撐人站立的是骨頭,也就是膝蓋骨,不是外面那層皮好嗎??如果打到 膝蓋骨,我們真的就只有一個跛腳副總統了... > All GSW's by bullets are small. Unless they are shot gun wounds. No one > would ever use a shot gun for assassination because the range is short > and its blasts would spray too wide to be effective. The ideal weapon > of choice is rifle. Rifle bullet creates a small hole but the damage is > done INTERNALLY because of its high velocity. So it generates significant > local bruising. Though the wound maybe small, but the local tissue/organ > damage is extensive. So why is the wound so BIG and where is the BRUISING? > 所有槍傷的傷口都是小的.除非是散彈槍. 但是沒有人會在近距離使用散彈鎗.因 > 為距離太短而且波及範圍太大會造成效果減弱..因此最理想的鎗是來福槍.來福槍 > 是最佳的致命武器，因為它能夠造成傷口小但是對於傷口內的傷害最大.也因為它 > 的高能.所以一定會造成很明顯的瘀青..整個傷口會呈現傷口小.內部大傷而且廣 > 泛.但是我沒有看到這樣的傷口.. 都告訴你是改造手槍了,你還想怎麼樣,拿把來福槍叫兇手再來一次嗎?? 你說的是貫穿傷,要進入體腔才有這種現象.....還好沒有!! 就跟你說了有debride過,聽不懂喔? > Where is the swelling? Being shot is like getting hit by a hammer, > but at twice the speed of sound. Have you ever hit yourself on the > finger with a hammer? Or walked into a coffee table? Don't u get a > big bruise and it swells? Where is the swelling that I see all the > time when I am in the ER treating GSW patients? > 也沒有看到腫脹.因為槍傷的傷口會像被一個2倍音速的榔頭敲打過一樣..你有沒 > 有被鐵槌不小心敲過？或者腳指頭被桌腳壓過？那傷口不就是瘀青而且腫脹嗎？ > 我看過許多的槍傷患者，但是就只有阿扁的傷口沒有上述情形，真是天佑台灣。 就跟你說了有debride過,聽不懂喔? > Why is he standing up in the picture and still dressed? Am I too > cautious in the ER when I am working or the doctor who was treating > him is a moron! If you were shot, would you still have enough nerves > left to be standing? Even if you could be so calm and stand, any > competent doctor would insist that you lay down since all GSW's are > potentially assumed deadly, if not critical/serious by any experienced > doctor. They have to be evaluated expeditiously, carefully with the > patient fully UNDRESSED. > 照片中的阿扁是站立照相而且還穿著衣服？他們當所有急診室的醫生都是白痴 > 嗎？我不相信有人被子彈打到還能冷靜到站著照相！就算是你能，一位有經驗 > 的醫生也會馬上要你躺下，因為槍傷往往有潛在的致命危機.而且一位醫師絕不 > 會讓有需要開刀的患者還穿著衣服的... 在美國就不要亂說台灣的事,是啦,美國比較高級啦!我們台灣的急診對付這樣的傷 口,還不必到手術房,都是讓病人穿著原來的衣服,局部消毒及麻醉就搞定了,我從 Intern到R2都是這樣,至少到現在,台灣的ER都是這樣,不然你想怎樣?有空到台大ER 看看好不好?台灣健保就只給那一點點錢,不然你是要全身麻醉嗎??你要醫師自己掏 腰包嗎?? > Why is the wound on side? Any shooter would shoot from the front or > the back because you have more chance of killing your target. Why > would the shooter wait to shoot him from the side, in a moving vehicle, > standing in a huge crowd? Is he another moron like the treating doctor > or maybe there was NEVER a shooter!!! > 傷口為何是從側面而過？開槍者難道不知道從正面或後面開槍的勝算最大嗎？ > 而且是在人群中並且瞄準移動的標靶的側面.難道他跟奇美的醫生一樣白痴嗎？ 笨!!從正面還能近距離開槍啊??槍手不是躲在人群中嗎?請問人群是在正面還是側 面啊??你以為他不想從正面開槍嗎??只是那樣不會太明顯嗎?如果是眾目睽睽下從 正面開槍,我們會到現在還找不到人嗎?? > How did the shooter not hit anyone else? He must be an Olympic shooting > champion! Or he does not exist! > Why not shoot the head? If the shooter was so good to hit him from the > side. Why not shoot the head? I can see that the shooter thinking that > target might be wearing a bullet-proof vest and hit him low. But why > hit him low when he is standing in a car which makes it very difficult > to aim because of too many obstructions. Then take the HEAD shot!! > 而且居然沒有射到其他的人，這位仁兄一定是奧運選手或者根本就沒有這個人.. > 如果槍手的技術好到能從側面射傷.那他幹麻不直接射頭部？我能夠意會槍手一定 > 是設想阿扁有穿防彈衣所以就射的低一點，但是為何他要選擇障礙多而且不易瞄 > 準的下部而不直射頭部？ 你又知道他本來想射哪裡了??你是槍手嗎??這個叫機率,叫做準率.... 是結果射到腹部,不是本來就要射腹部,這種邏輯思考,很懷疑你是唸科學的人...? > Why is the shooter shooting at her knees? Is he blind? OR THERE IS > NO SHOOTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > 槍手居然明顯的部位不射，卻專挑難瞄準的膝蓋！他瞎了狗眼嗎？還是根本 > 子虛烏有？ 笨...........理由同上 > How can they not know they were shot? They both said they didn’t know > they were shot….. Well…. All my patients, in the ER, when they were > attacked, all of them knew at the very moment they were shot by a bullet > without needing any previous experience of GSW. Being shot is like > getting hit by a professional boxer. The speed generated by a bullet > traveling at least twice the speed of sound can knock any one back a step. > Think of JFK ’s assassination. In the film, when he got shot in the head, > remember how violently his head wobbled! Didn’t it look like he was being > punched by a boxer except you can not see the boxer? How can both of them > just say “oh…I felt something burning… and saw blood…. What a stupid > lie… Who was their acting coach?? > 阿扁說他不知到中槍！所有我的患者在中彈的當場就知道他中彈了而且也不用以 > 前有過中彈的經驗，因為被槍射擊就好像是被一位職業拳擊手打到一樣.. 被一個 > 2倍音速的物體擊到.任何人都會倒退！你可以回想拳擊賽的畫面.那些投被打到的 > 拳擊手的頭部震動的慢動作..但是你只聽到阿扁說；好像有東西在燒. 然後看到血 > ..真他媽的鬼扯，叫他們的導演好好進修一番.... 你有沒有到過戰場上啊?不然去問問現在在總統府前的老兵好了,這種事沒什麼不可能 ,當腎上腺素分泌,腦內酚上升(endorphin)(別告訴我你不懂,白話一點這叫做自體分 泌的嗎啡,用來緊急狀況下,身體的自然反應),越來越懷疑寫這個文章的是醫師了..... > Why didn't they go to a closer hospital but drove further to another > hospital? Were the body guards so dumb they didn’t know where is the > closest hospital? Or…. THEY HAVE TO GO TO A HOSPITAL THEY HAVE ALREADY > PREVIOUSLY SET UP!!!!!!! > 為何不到就近的醫院！難道哪那些隨扈不知到就近的醫院嗎？或者他們要到已經預 > 先準備的醫院？ 你台南人啊??這種報紙說的你都信,請問台南人自己不知道哪家醫院近嗎?他們用 選票告訴你們了.....(我是南一中的) > I can not believe they put up such fake stuff on TV without talking > at least to an ER/trauma doctor with GSW experience so at least the > wounds look believable. > 我真不敢相信這些醫生外行到要假裝一個傷口也假裝不好.. 別侮辱我們,奇美的醫師護士這次因為被冤枉,通通跑去投票了...... 我倒覺得你辛苦了,要假冒醫師果然不是件很容易的事. > They are so unbelievably stupid and what an embarrassment for Taiwan > for those two clowns to make up such bull shit for the whole world > to see........... So sad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > 我真不敢相信所有台灣人民被這二位小丑搞到讓全世界看笑話是有多丟臉、多 > 荒謬！ 丟臉的是連宋吧!!!!!!!!!!! > 我不相信這人寫的是實話, 很想給他反駁下去可是我對醫療知識又不夠! > 懇請各大大提供一些反駁, 那飯桶一直說我只會扣帽子, 罵他不愛臺灣, 抹紅抹黑! > 小弟口才欠佳, 可是又受不了泛藍圍剿, 希望各位能幫忙一下, 謝謝 --

※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From: 140.115.229.23 ※ 編輯: dotZu 來自: 140.115.229.23 (03/25 05:09) ※ 編輯: dotZu 來自: 140.115.229.23 (03/25 05:10)