※ 引述《oakleysee (Adam)》之銘言： : http://www.pokerhand.org/?2204498 : no read on opponents. The button 3 bet seems like stealing. : <maybe not cuz its 7.5BB raise> : This JJ I plan not to play post flop so I decide to re-raise as a test. : My question is: should I just fold here? or make it $23 to go? : $29 seems too large for me to throw it away. at work, can't type Chinese..sorry about that. Agree w/ what starrainy and fox have said so far here's my little 2cents about 4bet pre in that situation and 4bet pre in general. playing big pot preflop against unknown is the biggest mistake you can make on the table. w/ tricky hands like JJ at nl100, I almost never 4bet and turned my hand into bluff unless I have history w/ certain opponents and light 3bettor (which is not the case here). Here I wanna talk a bit about 4betting pre. As Starrainy stated, you would almost never see 4bet bluff at nl100, you might, but it's not often enough for you to consider it anyway. NL100 players don't 4bet/5bet w/ less than QQ+, except for some spewtards. Why do you 4bet? Do you have a plan when 4betting? Good players only 4bet for 2 reasons: 1. for value 2. for bluff. When you 4bet for value, you have intention of "getting in pre flop" when your opponent 5b shove. When you 4bet bluff, you have intention of "folding to shove or 5bet". When do you 4bet for value? It depends, usually it's when you have QQ+, AKo+ hands you are happy w/ getting in pre flop. Sometimes you do it w/ JJ+,AQo+; it's all very "player dependent". Against light 3bettor, when I say light, I mean real light, like having over 10% of 3bet frequency or history between you two. You certainy wouldn't mind getting in pre w/ JJ+, AQo+ under those "special occasion". For the most part, when you 4bet QQ+,AKo+ and facing 5bet shove against "unknown", you are almost flipping. Now here comes w/ the tricky and advanced part, 4bet bluff. Why and when do you 4bet bluff? You 4bet bluff because you think your opponent is 3betting resteal, BUT "your hand doesn't play well post flop", hands like A2o-AJs, 56s+, 68s+, KTo+, small pairs. So you "4bet bluff" hoping he'd muck hands like ATo-AJs, 22-TT, 56s+,T8s+,KTo+ By 4betting, majority of players would AUTO assign you range w/ QQ+, AKo+. THEREFORE, when they 5bet, they ALMOST ALWAYS (unless you get leveled) have the range they assign you CRUSHED. This applies to JJ, assuming you get 3bet by unknown, no history, no read, YOU decide to 4bet "for value", however, for the most part, you are only turning your JJ into "4bet bluff", why? Because worse hands fold and better hands shove. So when do you 4bet bluff? Remember, when you bet or raise (in this case,4bet) you want BETTER HANDS TO FOLD and WORSE HANDS TO CALL. I'd 4bet bluff w/ my bottom range, and hoping my THINKING opponents would toss hands that have me crushed, like ATo+, KTo+ if I open w/ say..56s; or against only THINKING PLAYERS. But again, 4bet bluff is VERY "player dependent", I have different range against different opponents. Imo, I STRONGLY don't recommend any ptt newbies do this, no matter how good you think you are, or how high of ego you have (leave it at the door when you play poker, you want your ego or you want money when playing poker?) After reading bunch of HHs most ppl posted here, I don't think majority of ptters have capability to pull this move off profitably.(don't blame me, I'm just being very honest w/ you :) ) or for those who are playing nl25-nl100, even nl200 if you are not good enough. Why? 1. Because you're risking too much to win too little and often will find yourself in a very tough situation where your opponents cold called your 4bet and you happened to flop a pair..you are FORCED to continue but you're not happy about it. 2. You're thinking too much at the level you play anyway, your opponents are NOT that good and "they don't think about the relative strength of their hand compare to your hand range, all they look at is the obsolute strength of their hand to the board texture." For low limit NL cash games, ABC poker and str8forward play is a guarantee fireway to win good amount of money. So, I'd just stick to TAG play in low limit cash games. By the way, if you can't handle JJ well in some tough spots, I don't think you should stay at nl100 either. I'd drop down level and get more experience first before burning money at higher lvl. hope it helps. peace. -- 原來台灣也有人在玩Texas Holdem阿 (就是007 Casino Royale裡面James Bond玩的那種) 大家去戰略高手裡面的poker板看看吧 聽說這在歐美超流行的 怎麼台灣還不風行起來 Texas Holdem超好玩的ㄟ... --

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