作者Wangdy (蒙古人)
看板BlizzHeroes
標題Re: [閒聊] 總覺得最近AI越來越蠢
時間Sat Feb 8 11:44:14 2020
https://reurl.cc/EK3VxR
以下不負責任亂翻:
Hello, and good day to you all!
My name is Kevin Gu, and I am a Senior Designer on the Heroes team. I have
been working alongside Jeff Beaudoin, our Lead Gameplay Engineer, on our game
’s A.I. We wanted to take a moment to update you all on where we are and how
our three major A.I. initiatives are progressing.
我是 Kevin Gu, 簡介一下目前 AI 的三個進度
Reconciliation of the Goal and Tactical Systems
目標與戰術系統的協調
There are two systems under the hood of Heroes that work together to drive
agent behavior: the Goal system and the Tactical system. The Goal system is
responsible for determining where A.I. agents should move, while the Tactical
system provides agents with awareness of their surroundings so that they use
and target their abilities intelligently. Last year, in an effort to improve
agent in-combat positioning, we made it possible for the Tactical system to
override the Goal system. Although we believe the changes were ultimately a
good iteration, they did expose several underlying issues that we are
addressing.
英霸有兩套並行的AI, 目標 與 戰術系統,
目標系統負責的是ai 要去哪,戰術系統觀察周遭,好讓ai 可以有效放招。
去年後改善了打團戰的走位,讓戰術系統蓋過目標系統,雖然這樣改不錯,但
也曝露出幾個問題....
Moving forward we will be reverting some of changes made in the last major
overhaul and restructuring the Tactical A.I. behavior tree. We are
reinforcing the intended separation of the Goal and Tactical systems, and
will be paying closer attention to make sure that any future changes do not
disturb this delicate balance of power. This will reduce the frequency of
agents being pulled in two directions at once, most commonly observed as
agents rapidly bouncing back and forth in place. This work will also allow us
to more quickly diagnose the root cause of misbehaving agents.
接下來我們會還原幾個上次的大改,重建戰術ai的行為準則 (behavior tree ),
強化並小心平衡這兩套ai 系統的權責區分,這應該會減少ai在那邊舉棋不定的情況,
最明顯常見的就是ai 在前後前後抖,就是兩套系統在拔河。
Laning and Defense
對線與防守
Our second priority is to improve A.I. agents’ understanding of “laning”
and how they approach pushing and defending those lanes. In the most recent
patch, we added logic that allows the Goal system to understand that lanes
pushed closer to a core are usually more valuable to defend. Our next step is
to include units within each lane to further modify how valuable lanes are to
defending agents. Both pieces will ensure that the A.I. will better
understand how to defend their lanes.
第二重要的是改善對線、推進或防守兵線。最近的更新,我們加了一條讓目標系統
了解到,讓線推到已方塔下,通常比較有利。接下來我們想統整每個兵線,
讓ai 能考慮哪條線要守。接下來ai 會了解如何防求兵線。
Goal Staging
目標執行順序 (是這個意思,還是程式設計的用語?)
Our third priority is to improve the ability for agents to prepare or “stage
” for their assigned Goals. Our internal Tactical A.I. tree can now better
determine if all assigned agents to a goal have arrived. This allows agents
to intuit if they should wait in shrubs because their team members are not
yet near their collective objective, and subsequently helps agents work
together.
接下來是希望ai 能預先、籌畫執行他們的目標。我們的內部戰術ai 準則
的執行時機更準確,也就是說他們能知道時機未到、隊友還沒到位,先蹲草叢等。
Thank You
We want to extend a big thank you to those who have shared feedback on A.I.
We hear you! We are hard at work improving the A.I., and plan to bring the
items mentioned above and more into the next major Heroes patch. Again, thank
you for your continued patience, and we’ll see you in the Nexus!
感恩,謝謝大家在社群對ai 的回饋. We'll see you in the Nexus!
--
※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 36.235.53.137 (臺灣)
※ 文章網址: https://webptt.com/m.aspx?n=bbs/BlizzHeroes/M.1581133457.A.1B6.html
也就是說,以前 Ai 超神,丟招神準,是因為戰術系統比較大
後來改成有大局觀,但是各走各的線,一般散沙。
這要ai 黨來評論會比較準了
※ 編輯: Wangdy (36.235.53.137 臺灣), 02/08/2020 11:47:17
1F:推 Darktemplar: 大局觀?AI整天在那邊抖,戰場目標死不拿(但是敵方 02/08 12:57
2F:→ Darktemplar: AI會「積極有效狂拿」,按跟隨也死不攻擊傭兵,閃光 02/08 12:58
3F:→ Darktemplar: 跟隨也不攻擊,不跟隨還是不攻擊。AI現在的大局觀大 02/08 12:58
4F:推 Darktemplar: 概要「玩家輸死」吧!每日任務不re個10場還解不掉! 02/08 13:00
5F:推 zombsu: AI最爛的就是死都不救自己的核心啦.. 02/08 13:50
6F:→ zombsu: 每次要拆核心一個都不來防守是怎樣 02/08 13:50
7F:→ uluvu0: 這裡的ai跟我們以為的ai根本就不同。不然玩家都被打爆了 02/08 19:23
8F:推 REDF: 我只知道帶AI打真的很汗顏... 02/08 19:49
9F:推 biglafu: AI是當自己隊友時候行為會更糟糕 02/08 20:00
10F:→ biglafu: AI在對面好一點 02/08 20:00
11F:→ olkl1234: 整隊都AI的時候他們會跟連了卡拉的神族一樣 有玩家的時 02/08 21:45
12F:→ olkl1234: 候跟少了主宰的蟲族一樣 02/08 21:45
13F:推 fransice7: AI如果太強強到比八成玩家還強 那玩家大概又會抗議XD 02/08 21:56
14F:推 sumarai: 暴雪把英霸拿來玩A開發XDD 02/08 23:15
15F:→ sumarai: 榨乾剩餘價值 02/08 23:15
16F:推 DS196457: AI再聰明也只是AI 頂多就比真新手好一點而已 02/09 01:25
17F:→ olkl1234: 想到之前Dota的超級電腦 可以痛宰職業選手 02/09 03:23
18F:推 Severine: 看來有人沒看過神鬼源式 02/09 18:40
19F:→ DS196457: 看來有人拿特例當通例 02/09 20:19
20F:推 hitsukix: 以前AI再怎麼廢 至少丟招都很準 02/09 22:38
21F:→ olkl1234: 再怎樣也怎樣 不就是要舉特例了嗎? 02/10 00:11
22F:推 seventeenlig: 應該是想讓AI行為盡量貼近玩家,所以才會讓人覺得AI 02/10 14:54
23F:→ seventeenlig: "變弱了"。實際上AI一直讓人覺得很強的點一直都是0 02/10 14:54
24F:→ seventeenlig: 接招、指向神預判之類的非人操作 02/10 14:55
25F:→ seventeenlig: 把這些拿掉自然就覺得AI變爛了 02/10 14:56
26F:→ seventeenlig: 自己比較有感的是躲指向技啦。最早凱爾薩斯Q隨便丟 02/10 14:57
27F:→ seventeenlig: 隨便中,後來變成不控場絕對丟不中,現在則是往一群 02/10 14:57
28F:→ seventeenlig: AI Q下去,會馬上散開但有一兩個刻意讓你Q到 02/10 14:58
29F:推 harvey0487: ai就跟玩維京人一樣阿...你點一點他們自己就會跟上來 02/11 04:08
30F:→ harvey0487: 了... 02/11 04:08
31F:推 LayerZ: Goal Staging這樣翻ok,AI本身是狀態機 02/11 16:15
32F:推 paiopapa: AI最詭異的是放個地雷之類的技能 會在地雷後面前前後後 02/12 10:15
33F:→ paiopapa: 不停移動 這時候遠距打他很開心 02/12 10:16
34F:推 vking223: ai跟隨,站旁邊卻不幫打傭兵,超白痴 02/14 14:16
35F:→ EvilCerberus: 至少我們知道寫出這種低能腳本的傢伙叫什麼名字了 02/16 17:54