studyabroad 板


LINE

在逛对岸论坛看到的,看完之後真的觉得诚信是一件很重要的事 不管是在学术界或业界亦然,个人行为「也许」会影响到一整个国家 文章有点长,有兴趣的可以慢慢看完 ---- letter from a professor majored in ME,U OF MICHIGAN,US Dear xxx: I would like to inform you of the situation relevant to Chinese graduate students here, at least at our department, which makes it very difficult for us to accept graduate students from China in the future. Over about one year period, we have had 6 Chinese Ph.D. students quit their RAship and Ph.D. studies. The reason for them to leave was not that they could not continue, it was rather because they want to have a job now (a higher salary, with a hope that the companies will apply for their green card status. They came with thier promises to pursue their Ph.D. degrees, we paid tuition for them to take courses for their Master degree, and we taught and helped them in their research capabilities. Once they got their M.S. degree in Mechanical Engeering, because of the excellent job market in the U.S. at this time, it is relatively easy for them to find a job. In a way we felt that we were used as a step for those Chinese students to come here, and get their master's degree, then get their jobs. We pay approximately $45-50 K/year for each Ph.D. student, including the tuition, health insurance, various fees, lab and computer fees, and monthly salary, we also put a lot of time and efforts for them. They (most of them) also did good research work as assistants. However, we don't get credit because we don't produce PH.D's, which is one of our major purposes as an institution of high education. On the other hand, they have their particular interests which are also understandable, for example, financial pressure, and wishes to have their green card applications on the way asap. This situation also happened to my Chinese Ph.D.student. He is very talented and did a good job in research. However, after he got his M.S. in M.E., he resigned very recently. We still let him stay here presently (with salary) for one more month, otherwise he will have to repay his tuition, which is over $10K. Although we are very considerate for those students, the consequences are obvious: (1) It greatly degraded the reputation of Chinese graduate students who apply for admission. Some professors address those as "very unethical", "you really cannot trust them when they promise you to pursue their Ph.D. degrees; under your supervision", " you feel you are so stupid as cheated by your own student". It really created some resentment. Actually, I know, as of this time, there are a couple of more students looking for a job or already got a job offer, but not telling their advisors. They will quit at the last minute before they leave. This situation will certainly get backfired, and the damage will mostly be transferred onto the future applicants from China. (2) Some professors or research scientists have already made their decisions not to consider Chinese student applications. Although it should not and cannot be a policy, it is the individual's decision in selecting future. Ph.D. students with preference, and in my opinion, with good reasons. It will make it much more difficult for us to bring in Ph.D. students from China. For example, as you know, I was looking for one or two Ph.D. students later this year, and I have a vacancy for a Ph.D. student now. But I will not consider Chinese applicants. At the same time I feel truely sorry, for I know, especially many graduate students from Tsinghua University of very high qualifications sent email applications to me (and to other professors), including yourself. Now I have to inform you that please try your applications elsewhere, or other professors. In our department, many Chinese graduate students know me and we have a very friendly relationships. The faculty members know that too. One told me: "You try to help them, then they screw you up!" I spent time to write this email message, for your information and considerations, as to how this situation may be somehow alleviated. You may discuss this with your close friends and classmates, I am not sure you should broadly propagate this message. But I did present a fact and an opinion ------- 印象中版上好像有这家学校的faculty,若有不妥请来信告知,会立马删除 --



※ 发信站: 批踢踢实业坊(ptt.cc)
◆ From: 163.14.35.70
1F:推 TheEconomist:谢谢分享 诚信真的很重要 出国并不是为了绿卡找工作! 03/14 14:34
2F:推 chieher:感谢台湾留学生前辈留下的好名声 <(_ _)> 03/14 14:38
3F:推 l17:大陆学生人超多,竞争非常激烈。想必去美国也是不择手段吧XD 03/14 14:39
4F:推 yuhung:前几周为了准备UMich ME的PhD Phone interview 03/14 14:39
5F:→ yuhung:和一位刚从UMich回来的学长(现在是教授了XD)聊了一下 03/14 14:39
6F:→ yuhung:他说当年他去时,台湾学生几乎都没有fellowship 03/14 14:39
7F:→ yuhung:通常就是RA和TA而已,而大陆学生都有 03/14 14:40
8F:推 chieher:话说这篇是不是有点久了?我去google有搜到2007的文章 03/14 14:40
9F:→ yuhung:那位学长说"很多时候明明知道自己比其他大陆学生强,但学校 03/14 14:40
10F:→ yuhung:还是只给他们钱,幸好UMich现在改了" 03/14 14:41
11F:推 YASUKOHUANG:不晓得美国教授的心中,会不会把Taiwanese跟Chinese想 03/14 14:42
12F:→ YASUKOHUANG:成一样?? 03/14 14:42
13F:推 hotkey:thx for sharing~ 03/14 14:42
14F:→ yuhung:应该不会一样,至少我认识的都分得清楚 03/14 14:42
15F:推 happyennovy:不会一样 帮我写推荐信的老师之一是OSU毕业的 03/14 14:43
16F:→ yuhung:光是过去几年,有些学校给大陆学生补助比台湾学生多这点 03/14 14:44
17F:→ happyennovy:他说他念的时候台湾学生都有念完 同届大陆学生都念一 03/14 14:44
18F:→ yuhung:就看得出他们分得清楚Taiwan和China了 XD 03/14 14:44
19F:→ happyennovy:半就跑了... 所以很多美国学校对大陆学生印象不太好 03/14 14:44
20F:→ happyennovy:虽然大陆补助有多一点 但是台湾和大陆录取率差很多 03/14 14:45
21F:→ yuhung:另外我上周第二次和UMich(快给我AD啦QAQ)Phone interview时 03/14 14:45
22F:→ yuhung:那位美国教授还在问我的话中特别提到"Taiwan" 03/14 14:45
23F:→ yuhung:所以我想他们是分得清楚的 03/14 14:46
24F:推 Geigemachen:我上UIUC EE PhD,面试过程中有对岸学生对我敌意很强 03/14 15:26
25F:→ Geigemachen:我想也许他不满意教授收我而不收对岸学生吧 03/14 15:27
26F:→ Geigemachen:我越来越能体会美国人不喜欢对岸学生人格的心情了 03/14 15:28
27F:→ victoryuy:美国教授应该是最清楚这些亚洲人的分别的吧 03/14 15:38
28F:推 jdgcranna:值得深思啊~感谢台湾留学的前辈~我会努力的! 03/14 17:07
29F:推 Chaika:谢谢分享 03/14 20:27
30F:推 somnambule:真是自私...... 03/14 20:51
31F:→ hereafter:还有一种是拿钱过几年就转系...我遇到的例子是印度人 03/14 20:53
32F:→ hereafter:结果隔年印度人录取率就真的... 03/14 20:54
33F:→ hereafter:一般有收台湾学生的学校应该分得清楚,至少我看系上文件 03/14 20:55
34F:→ hereafter:都是分得相当清楚 03/14 20:55
35F:→ SkyLark2001:excellent job market in the U.S....看到这段就知道 03/14 20:55
36F:→ SkyLark2001:这封信的时间大概至少五年前吧... 03/14 20:56
37F:推 reinherd:我猜这封信有点历史了 因为目前job market......谢谢分享 03/14 21:21
38F:推 ndr:这种事二十几年前就开始有了 03/14 21:25
39F:→ ndr:指终国学生的这种作为 03/14 21:26
40F:推 boblu:有些地方还是会搞混 至少在过去十年内啦 03/14 22:04
41F:→ boblu:我有同学申请学校被回说(大意)你们GRE都靠机经或PBT时间差 03/14 22:05
42F:→ boblu:所以我们不承认。 03/14 22:06
43F:推 momo4th:楼上说的情形应该全亚洲学生都这样吧~ 03/14 22:12
44F:→ momo4th:另外,虽然大家口上都这样说但大陆的录取人数还是很多啊.. 03/14 22:14
45F:推 george31708:如果这封信是真的的话,可以去检举。 03/14 22:44
46F:推 porschesun:看到这不意外 有大陆同学拿到某大学Ph.D 念了一年 03/14 23:16
47F:→ porschesun:结果就找到工作 放弃他的Ph.D了 我相信这例子不算少数 03/14 23:17
48F:嘘 FrozenRiver:这封信假的 2006UMich出来辟谣过 03/15 00:03
49F:推 FrozenRiver:并非嘘原PO 只是红得较明显 推回来 希望谣言就此为止 03/15 00:06
50F:推 striking:不过我们在国外的表现多少会影响别人怎麽看待台湾, 03/15 00:35
51F:推 PinkQQ:感谢分享。这样的情形老早发生久矣,老美很无法接受 03/15 01:28
52F:推 happyennovy:大陆的录取人数多是因为申请人数也很多啊! 03/15 01:49
53F:→ happyennovy:录取比例的话, 帮我写推荐信的老师每个都说台湾录取率 03/15 01:50
54F:→ happyennovy:比对面还高 03/15 01:50
55F:推 oplz:美国人的 drop out rate 也未必低呀... 03/15 02:14
56F:推 sp045899:我系上的中国学生也是原本念Phd 拿完钱找到工作就不念了 03/15 02:29
57F:→ alchian:这封的确很可疑 信太长 教授不会这样写 03/15 04:42
58F:→ uwmtsa:爬爬文就会发现许多台湾留学生的观念也开始.... 03/15 04:46
59F:推 planetearth:为什麽graduate assistantship非得要读完PhD才行? 03/15 05:27
60F:→ planetearth:又不是领薪水的时候没帮老师做事 03/15 05:27
61F:→ planetearth:人本来想换工作就可以换工作吧 03/15 05:28
62F:推 kuyung:说假的可不可以麻烦把证据拿出来? 03/15 05:36
63F:推 buteo:没有说非要念完PhD不可 而是若来者有百分之七八十都是拿PhD 03/15 08:23
64F:→ buteo:的offer来 结果念完master就走人 这样也难怪会受争议 03/15 08:23
65F:→ buteo:PhD的生涯是越後段贡献越大 前一两年可能光修课和教书就耗 03/15 08:24
66F:→ buteo:掉大量时间 对於研究着墨有限 但领的钱一样 03/15 08:25
67F:推 Geigemachen:说这封信假的人,可以立刻公开你所说的辟谣信吗? 03/15 08:47
68F:→ Geigemachen:我们怎麽知道这封拒绝信是假的,还是你的辟谣是假的? 03/15 08:47
69F:推 Geigemachen:即使校系出面否认,我们怎知不是避免歧视官司而说谎话? 03/15 09:18
70F:推 somerabbit:读master 不是自己花钱吗 教授有甚麽不满 03/15 09:48
71F:推 Geigemachen:有些master有TA,RA,fellowship,学费减免;真争议在PhD 03/15 10:00
72F:→ Geigemachen:争议"名义上念PhD拿PhD的薪水,但打定主意只拿MS就走" 03/15 10:01
73F:→ Geigemachen:且非能力不足或是穷到不行才毁弃诺言,是一开始就故意 03/15 10:07
74F:推 towelll:不论真伪此信至少说明一个现象 显示制度上和人性上的缺陷! 03/15 10:29
75F:→ lenux:抱歉没有查证真伪 但私以为这种现象一定存在 值得讨论分享:) 03/15 10:32
76F:推 Geigemachen:这现象我听说很久,这封信特别处是严重到影响系所录取 03/15 10:36
77F:→ george31708:这本来就不是甚麽了不起的事。没有签合约。拿PhD 薪水 03/15 11:18
78F:→ george31708:也是有工作才会拿到薪水。又不是甚麽偷偷摸摸的事。 03/15 11:18
79F:→ george31708:读一读选择不继续也是人家的自由。这篇信严重的地方是 03/15 11:19
80F:→ george31708:种族歧视。如果录取学生的标准是国籍而且还可以明显到 03/15 11:21
81F:→ george31708:寄信通知,那这个教授所遇到的问题非常严重。 03/15 11:22
82F:推 Geigemachen:歧视没诚信的人与国籍,怎麽是"种族歧视"? 分类不妥 03/15 11:22
83F:→ Geigemachen:把 种族 与 国籍 混为一谈,在法庭上是行不通的 03/15 11:23
84F:推 george31708:所以认定"从XX国来的都是没诚信的人" 不涉及歧视? 03/15 11:25
85F:→ george31708:这种事情非常敏感,被抓到的话後果很严重。被开除事小 03/15 11:27
86F:→ george31708:严重的话会坐牢。 03/15 11:27
87F:推 Geigemachen:故你承认此事不是racial discrimination对吧? 03/15 11:29
88F:→ Geigemachen:顶多是nationality profiling 03/15 11:30
89F:→ Geigemachen:racial profiling在美都不违法,nationality profiling 03/15 11:30
90F:→ Geigemachen:其实法律上还有颇大胜面,只是舆论观感问题而已 03/15 11:31
91F:→ george31708:两个都有,这没甚麽好辩的。nationality profiling 不 03/15 11:31
92F:→ george31708:会在这件事变得比较好听。这很明显是discrimination 03/15 11:32
93F:→ george31708:因为涉及到利益问题。 03/15 11:33
94F:推 Geigemachen:discrimiation与profiling在法律上差很大,生活中难分 03/15 11:33
95F:→ Geigemachen:更正上行:discrimination 03/15 11:34
96F:→ george31708:我不懂这有甚麽好辩的。生活上难分是因为没有牵涉到利 03/15 11:35
97F:→ george31708:益。但如果像是employment 之类的事情,如果有明显证 03/15 11:36
98F:→ george31708:据,这都是违法的。尤其像这封信那麽明显。所以说是谣 03/15 11:37
99F:→ george31708:言还比较可能。真实的话,一定闹非常大。 03/15 11:38
100F:推 Geigemachen:难说,系所可能为了避免争议,事後淡化否认文件真实性 03/15 12:37
101F:→ Geigemachen:U of Michigan的朋友说会替我去机械系所问此事 03/15 12:37
102F:→ Geigemachen:就可知道此事到底是被河蟹的事实,有所本,或是谣言 03/15 12:38
103F:推 oplz:我也不懂这件事有甚麽好辩的? 这信是真是假跟事实上这种情况 03/15 13:33
104F:→ oplz:严重与否是两件不同的事.. 很多事可以做不能说..会真的明白写 03/15 13:33
105F:→ oplz:下白纸黑字的学校或教授不是太不敏感就是太不聪明了.. 03/15 13:34
106F:→ oplz:请人去问到这信是假的又如何? 是真的又怎样? 力气花在值得的 03/15 13:36
107F:→ oplz:地方比较有意义一点... 03/15 13:36
108F:推 SaraV:既然research做得很好 应该不至於不肯收中国的硕士班学生吧 03/15 15:40
109F:→ SaraV:大学一定要有多少ph D. students才算有水准?哪门子道理? 03/15 15:40
110F:→ FrozenRiver:後来google了一下,我没有证据。但这封信也同样无法证 03/15 20:52
111F:→ FrozenRiver:明其存在。 愿意相信这封信的就无视我说过的话吧。 03/15 20:53
112F:→ FrozenRiver:个人认为这封信有些疑点,其一是上面推文所述的歧视, 03/15 20:55
113F:→ FrozenRiver:其他疑点恕我不在这一一指出。 03/15 20:56
114F:推 kuanglun:这事台湾学生也有吧,只是对岸的较频繁. 我当年进U of MN 03/16 00:13
115F:→ kuanglun:EE时, 前无古人(根据其他科系学长说在那一年前 有3-4年 03/16 00:16
116F:→ kuanglun:没有直接收台湾的学生) 据说就是台湾学生集体转学. 03/16 00:17
117F:→ kuanglun:另外 美国教授都会把台湾和中国分的清楚. 我曾经在网上 03/16 00:20
118F:→ kuanglun:看过document 帮助教授了解个国家的教育背景的不同点. 03/16 00:22
119F:推 kuyung:第一 "说这封信是假的"跟"无法证明这封信的存在"是两回事 03/16 00:23
120F:→ kuyung:请勿混为一谈 第二 没证据就请不要说某件事是假的 03/16 00:24
121F:→ kuanglun:那个document是明大graduate school做的. 映像中,就是在 03/16 00:24
122F:→ kuyung:就算如你所说是假的 没证据的指控这在美国是很严重的 03/16 00:25
123F:→ kuanglun:帮教授要如何evaluate学生的gpa等等... 03/16 00:26
124F:→ kuanglun:所以我要说的是,你的行为多少都会影响你後面的人. 如果 03/16 00:27
125F:→ kuanglun:你的gpa很高,但表现不好,那麽你後面的学弟妹的录取机会 03/16 00:29
126F:→ kuanglun:就会小了. 原PO的文章就有提清华. 03/16 00:30
127F:推 Geigemachen:Michigan的同学告诉我:该系比较少看到中国的ME学生 03/16 09:06
128F:→ Geigemachen:还有对台湾学生比较友善.. 03/16 09:06
129F:嘘 TakeDoll:当年UMich的官方声明不是说这封是教授的个人意见 03/17 21:18
130F:→ TakeDoll:不是代表学校吗? 什麽时候变成这封是假的!!!??? 03/17 21:19
131F:推 Geigemachen:楼上一语点醒梦中人 03/18 11:18
132F:→ freepure:一开始不就说 来自教授的信吗? XD 03/18 12:57







like.gif 您可能会有兴趣的文章
icon.png[问题/行为] 猫晚上进房间会不会有憋尿问题
icon.pngRe: [闲聊] 选了错误的女孩成为魔法少女 XDDDDDDDDDD
icon.png[正妹] 瑞典 一张
icon.png[心得] EMS高领长版毛衣.墨小楼MC1002
icon.png[分享] 丹龙隔热纸GE55+33+22
icon.png[问题] 清洗洗衣机
icon.png[寻物] 窗台下的空间
icon.png[闲聊] 双极の女神1 木魔爵
icon.png[售车] 新竹 1997 march 1297cc 白色 四门
icon.png[讨论] 能从照片感受到摄影者心情吗
icon.png[狂贺] 贺贺贺贺 贺!岛村卯月!总选举NO.1
icon.png[难过] 羡慕白皮肤的女生
icon.png阅读文章
icon.png[黑特]
icon.png[问题] SBK S1安装於安全帽位置
icon.png[分享] 旧woo100绝版开箱!!
icon.pngRe: [无言] 关於小包卫生纸
icon.png[开箱] E5-2683V3 RX480Strix 快睿C1 简单测试
icon.png[心得] 苍の海贼龙 地狱 执行者16PT
icon.png[售车] 1999年Virage iO 1.8EXi
icon.png[心得] 挑战33 LV10 狮子座pt solo
icon.png[闲聊] 手把手教你不被桶之新手主购教学
icon.png[分享] Civic Type R 量产版官方照无预警流出
icon.png[售车] Golf 4 2.0 银色 自排
icon.png[出售] Graco提篮汽座(有底座)2000元诚可议
icon.png[问题] 请问补牙材质掉了还能再补吗?(台中半年内
icon.png[问题] 44th 单曲 生写竟然都给重复的啊啊!
icon.png[心得] 华南红卡/icash 核卡
icon.png[问题] 拔牙矫正这样正常吗
icon.png[赠送] 老莫高业 初业 102年版
icon.png[情报] 三大行动支付 本季掀战火
icon.png[宝宝] 博客来Amos水蜡笔5/1特价五折
icon.pngRe: [心得] 新鲜人一些面试分享
icon.png[心得] 苍の海贼龙 地狱 麒麟25PT
icon.pngRe: [闲聊] (君の名は。雷慎入) 君名二创漫画翻译
icon.pngRe: [闲聊] OGN中场影片:失踪人口局 (英文字幕)
icon.png[问题] 台湾大哥大4G讯号差
icon.png[出售] [全国]全新千寻侘草LED灯, 水草

请输入看板名称,例如:Tech_Job 或 站内搜寻

TOP