作者nanpyn (Apple)
看板studyabroad
标题Re: [其他] The Essence of Traditional Chinese - …
时间Fri Oct 7 14:31:41 2011
※ 引述《SeCrEtX ()》之铭言:
热血响应~
: 以下是我听完今天的一堂课後花了将近三小时写的信, 因为我不认同他将一
可以简述一下事件原貌吗
他是怎麽类比的
还有那位教授的专业背景为何?
对方有没有语言学专长?
: 个简化的数学模型类比到简体中文之於繁体中文. 本来想当场反驳的, 但我
: 怕会占用太多课堂时间所以回家沈淀之後才写这封信私下给他, 希望他可以
: 抽出时间看. 本就听说留学生出国或多或少会遇到这种事, 我没想到自己遇
: 到的时候竟然是如此义愤填膺, 直为繁体中文--我心中的少数正道之一--打
: 抱不平. 如果你是台湾人, 而且英文程度准许的话, 希望你花点时间看看这
: 篇文章并发表一些意见. 谢谢!
: Professor XXX,
: Thank you for reading this letter. First of all I want to thank
: you for giving such a wonderful lecture about the vectors and
: tensors, it is very informative even for a trained
: Engineering-major student as me.
: However, as a student from Taiwan, I, with no offense, have to
: point out that your metaphor of the Simplified Chinese to the
: adoption of tensor index notation is not accurate for two reasons:
: 1. Traditional Chinese is a cultural legacy of our 5000-year
: history, as suggested by its name. It not only represents the
: creativeness and wisdom of our ancestors, but also serves as an
: identification of our Chinese spirit and dignity. The entirety and
: the completeness of every Chinese words individually implies how
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
every Chinese "character"
word 是词
character 才是汉文字(原本独体为文 合体为字 但後来无论是独体或合体都可称为字)
例如 「中文」是个词 但「中文」有两个字
字、词的意义其实有别
台湾受误译影响而误用
大多数人误以为外语跟中文一样都是以字为单位
但其实字母是符号 拼成单词才对 而非单字
学过语言学才会发现是不同的
当然 我们也有单字、单音节的词
但以两字、双音节的词是最多的
: we live, we work, the angles we look the world, and the evolvement
: of our history, although sometimes in a very obscure and abstract
: form. For that reason, people in Taiwan proudly inherit this
: cultural consciousness from our predecessors, and pass them to our
: descendants with the same expectation. Simplified Chinese, whom I
: give my full respect to as a new form (or branch) of Chinese
: culture, break this continuum and therefore alters the essence of
: a Chinese word, discontinuously. In the science language, the
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Chinese characters
: transition of the spirit of a Traditional Chinese word to a
: Simplified Chinese word is not an equal sign '=', but an
: approximate sign '~'. This is not the case in the index notation:
: they are essentially the same.
: 2. Traditional Chinese is actually a very elegant and beautiful
: word form, if one knows deep enough. There are certain principles
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
writing system
: how we create new words, e.g. based on the physical shapes, the
^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
new characters and lexicons
造字和构词的其实意义不同
但我猜你想同时表达两种
对啊 我们的造字及构词都可归纳出一些很实用的原则
: pronunciation, their implication and so forth. With time goes by
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
呃 这边你要不要列出专业术语较能说服对方?
1. 现代的 Mandarin
其书写系统 (writing system) 由於形声字比例很高 所以分类属於 morphosyllabory
2. 其他造字原则(古人所归纳的六书)也有术语
3. 构词法 (morphology) 各家说法略有歧异 但其中复合式大概可分为六种
: (hundreds to thousands of years), these words gradually deviate
: from their original designs, but all of them preserve the basic
: geometries to some extent. In this sense, the sudden geometrical
: changes applied on the Simplified Chinese leads to the imprecise,
: incomplete descriptions of its original form. Some information are
: lost during the exterior transformation of a word. If a index 'i'
^^^^^^^^^ ^^^
a character; an index
: is different from a index 'j' and a gradient is different from a
^^^^^^^^^^
an index
: divergence, we cannot equal a Simplified Chinese word to its
^^^^^^^
character!
: original Traditional form. It is simply unacceptable.
: Because the exterior and interior of Simplified Chinese is much
: different from the Traditional Chinese, the analog is imprecise as
: an introduction to the function of index notation. I hope to
似乎可以应用用语言学的指涉 reference 来说明
字体的歧异造成本质与指涉改变
: convince you that it is not only about writing faster, but is
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
建议充实论点如下:
1. 简化後似乎好写 但常造成分辨困难
2. 之所以要求学生写字 是因为边写可以边了解结构并从笔画记忆整体字形
(这有理论)
3. 再者 一般人都是靠打字
所以写起来快不快已不是重点 打字快即可
相形之下 保留较多差异的繁体(正体字是相对於异体字而言)反而好辨识、好记
4. 简体字也不见得能消除本国文盲 靠汉语拼音或注音符号的辅助一样能提升识字率
: about the cultural difference between Taiwan and the mainland
: China, and is about the cognitions these two sovereign independent
: countries made in your mind. Please, forgive my rude to send you
: such a long letter after your long journey, and correct me if I
: made any mistakes. Thank you.
: Sinerely,
: Jui-Hsien Wang
嗯 互相了解知己知彼才有可能赢得对方尊重
你的立意良善 我支持你
但必须把本信的英文修改得很完美 呈现正确的拼字和语法
并以语言学加强说服力
对方看了才会觉得你不只是生气 而且非常专业
--
※ 发信站: 批踢踢实业坊(ptt.cc)
◆ From: 61.217.161.176
1F:→ nanpyn:补充一下 我们的字很特别 本身就有 morpheme 10/07 14:41
2F:→ nanpyn:构词後又能重组 morpheme 这大概能跟词根、词首、词尾类比 10/07 14:42
3F:→ nanpyn:但有些表声音的字单独时只有syllable 10/07 14:44
4F:→ nanpyn:须构词後才有morpheme 10/07 14:45
5F:→ nanpyn:e.g. 葡萄、沙发、轰隆 之类的 10/07 14:47
6F:推 SeCrEtX:等等, 你太专业了XD 我只是engineering的学生阿XDDDDD 10/07 15:06
7F:→ SeCrEtX:不过我会注意的下次(信已寄出), 谢谢指教! 10/07 15:06
8F:推 chieher:推推 10/07 15:08
9F:推 SeCrEtX:非常受用. 语言学博大精深, 小弟献丑^n了 10/07 15:11
10F:→ SeCrEtX:谢谢你帮我挑这麽多文法&字汇错误 @@ 10/07 15:12
11F:推 herstein:专业 10/07 20:11
12F:→ herstein:给推~~~好文! 10/07 20:12
13F:→ nanpyn:呵 如果那位教授回覆你 你再补充好了XD 10/07 20:17
14F:→ daltuku:补充关於第四点:後来确实有数据表示简中没有降低文盲率XD 10/07 20:37
15F:推 somnambule:原po没有说明教授当时类比的经过,让人很难判断是非 10/08 05:21
16F:推 vity:推 10/08 09:14
17F:→ nanpyn:对呀 识字是认识 跟好不好写实在无关 10/08 17:53
18F:→ nanpyn:韩文这麽好写 但只要稍微有点距离 我就难以辨识 10/08 17:54
19F:→ nanpyn:文盲问题是因为教育政策 而不是因为字体本身 10/08 17:55
20F:→ nanpyn:BTW 我觉得韩文很科学 但由於笔画简略 放在一起时有点难认 10/08 17:58
21F:→ nanpyn:要看清楚笔画往哪个方向才能确认是哪个字 10/08 17:59
※ 编辑: nanpyn 来自: 59.112.198.194 (10/22 02:38)