作者duke7814 (Vanilla)
看板Timberwolves
标题Fw: [外电] 防守底线三分的重要性
时间Fri Mar 30 13:07:57 2012
※ [本文转录自 NBA 看板 #1FTJSPc- ]
作者: eertllams (Tree666) 看板: NBA
标题: Fw: [外电] 防守底线三分的重要性
时间: Fri Mar 30 12:31:20 2012
Why corner threes matter for defenses
http://tinyurl.com/7ant43u
It has become accepted among NBA geeks that the hierarchy of the “best”
shots, from most efficient to least, goes something like this:
被大部分的NBA键盘专家认同 最有效率的出手依序为
1. Dunks/layups
1. 灌篮 上篮
2. Free throws
2. 罚球
3. Corner three-pointers
3. 底线三分
4. Other three-pointers
4. 其他三分出手
5. Mid-range shots
5. 中距离投篮
Teams last season shot 39 percent on corner threes, which is about the same
percentage teams shoot overall on two-pointers outside the restricted area.
Teams last season shot about 35.5 percent on all three-pointers, meaning they
shot something like 33.5 percent to 34 percent on three-pointers taken anywhere
but the corners.
上个球季全NBA底线三分的命中率是39% 这几乎等同於扣掉冲撞区的两分球命中率
NBA球队上球季的三分命中率是35.5%
换句话说 扣掉底线之外的三分 其他三分命中率大概仅33-34%
In short: The corner three is a great shot, something Spurs coach Gregg
Popovich understood probably before the Internet became a thing.
简言之: 底线三分是很好的出手
早在网路还没盛行前 波波维奇就已经了解其重要性
Basketball is a game of finite possessions and close scoring margins. It
matters if a team’s defense can chase shooters off of corner threes a couple
of times per game, and limit those shooters instead to floaters or some other
shot that is a) difficult and b) counts for only two points if it goes in.
篮球比赛 就是由有限的持球 跟 得分的一些手段 组成
如果一个球队的防守可以迫使对手减少底线三分出手
改选择比较困难的攻击方式 像是抛射,甚至其他困难的攻击
就算进了 也只是两分
Last week, I noted one reason the Clippers have ranked among the bottom 10
defensive teams this season: Opponents are shooting the lights out (about 44
percent) on corner three-pointers. The league was kind enough to send me data
on opponent corner threes for every team over the last two seasons (through
March 27), and I sent that data along to a two stats-savvy readers (Eric Maroun
and Aaron McGuire, the latter of the fantastic blog Gothic Ginobili). Those
guys then measured how strongly defending the corner three correlates with
overall defense and team winning percentage.
上周 我注意到快艇被评为本季目前防守的倒数十名
快艇的对手在底线三分可以有44%的命中率
联盟很好心的把这两个球季(三月27号之前)的 每一队的底线三分的资料分享给我
我也随後把资料寄给我俩个统计学上牛逼的读者
他们两位随即分析
把底线三分防守好的球队 跟 球队整体防守跟胜率的 关联性
The answers are interesting, if incomplete. A few general findings before we
get to the team level:
分析结果非常有趣 (不过分析目前还不完整)
有些我们的发现 在讨论是那些球队前 先与大家分享
‧ Limiting attempts seems to matter more than the percentage of corner threes
opponents make. That’s not surprising. Lots of studies have found that
limiting raw three-point attempts matters more than opponent three-point
percentage. The raw number of corner-three attempts allowed last season
correlated more strongly with both winning percentage and overall defensive
rating than shooting percentage on corner threes, according to work by Maroun
and McGuire. It also correlated more strongly with winning percentage than a
team’s defensive rebounding rate and the rate at which a team forced
turnovers. (In general, the correlation between defensive rebounding and
winning percentage is typically stronger than it was last season, according to
historical data.)
限制对手的(底线三分)出手数 似乎比对手的底线三分命中率 更为重要!
这不意外 我们发现
能限制对方底线三分的出手数目 跟 球队的整体防守排名还有球队胜利 大为相关!
根据他们的分析还发现
如果比较其他大家熟知的一些参数 (大家都理解的)
防守篮板率 或是 逼迫对方的失误 彼此的高相关
竟然比这篇文章讨论的
球队的胜率 与 限制对手底线三分 还要低一些 !
In general, the amount of corner threes a team allowed last season correlated
strongly with winning percentage as a few other key factors have done so in
prior years, including how often a team allows and earns free throws.
对手底线三分出手数 跟胜率有正相关之外 当然还有其他因子也会影响胜率
好比说 你多常让对手占上罚球线?
Last season’s Rockets (41.9 percent allowed on corner threes) and Spurs (a
league-worst 47 percent) both survived defensively in part because they ranked
second and fourth, respectively, in the number of corner-three attempts they
permitted.
上个球季火箭对手底线三分有41.9% 马刺更让对手有47%的高命中率(联盟最差)
但是这两队的防守还是让大家称赞
因为以计算对手底线三分出手的话 火箭排第二 马刺排第四
Overall last season, the average team attempted 412 corner threes. Of the 12
defenses that allowed fewer than 412 corner-three tries, nine ranked among the
league’s 15 stingiest defenses overall. That group included the Bulls and
Celtics, the league’s two best defenses. And of the 12 teams that allowed the
most corner-three attempts, only one — the Lakers — ranked better than 17th
in points allowed per possession.
上个球季 整体来说 平均的球队底线出手三分数目为 412 次
12只让对手总出手少於 412 次的球队里
9个球队排在防守排名的前15名!! 这包含了公牛与Celtics
而後面12只让对手投超过 412 次的球队里面
防守榜中唯一上榜的
只有湖人在让对手的(100次出手里)平均得分可以排到16名 (连前10都没)
There are exceptions, obviously, and this season’s Clippers are an example of
how damaging even an average number of corner-three attempts can be if a large
chunk of them are wide-open looks. And last season, five of the league’s 10
stingiest defenses, in terms of points allowed per possession, allowed an
above-average number of attempts from the corner: the Heat, Magic, Grizzlies,
Hornets and Lakers. But four of those teams — all but the Lakers — allowed a
number of corner threes close to the league average. Yielding a lot of such
shots was generally bad.
当然也有例外
好比说这个球季的快艇队 快艇本身没有让对手有很多底线三分出手数
但是 大部分出手都是大空档 (对手底线三分命中率44%)
还是队快艇造成很大伤害
‧ Chicago is ridiculous. The Bulls through 49 games this season had allowed
140 corner-three attempts. The Sixers, through that same stretch, had allowed
the second-fewest — 192. The gap between Chicago and Philly is the equivalent
of the gap between the Sixers and the league average for corner-three attempts
allowed. Chicago opponents are attempting just 2.85 corner threes per game; the
average team attempts about five per game.
公牛队很扯.....本球季49场球赛 公牛只让对手地线三分出手140次
76人队也打了49场 让对手出手次数排第二少 但是有192次出手
这两队得差距 差不多就是76人跟联盟平均的差距
所以联盟目前为止 平均让对手出手底线三分224次
以平均来看 一个 球队平均一场底线三分可以出手5次
但你是跟公牛比赛 同样地点你只能出手2.85次
Guess who yielded the fewest corner-three attempts last season? The Bulls, with
a total of 305, or about 3.8 per game. They have shaved a full attempt off that
number this season. Tom Thibodeau is scary.
那你可以猜猜 上个球季让对手底线三分出手最少的球队是??
还是公牛!
记得联盟平均是412次 82场的公牛对手 却只能出手305次
平均只有3.8次
但是....今年公牛却让对手在整整在少出手一次
老席 你太可怕了!!
‧ We might be seeing the impact of coaching here in lots of cases. Rick
Adelman, for one, appears to be a huge difference-maker in terms of defending
the corner three. The Timberwolves allowed a league-high 511 corner-three
attempts — about 6.2 per game — last season under Kurt Rambis. Under Adelman,
the Wolves have allowed about 4.3 corner threes per game, the fifth-lowest
amount. They are playing at a slower pace this season, but the decline — about
three possessions per game — does not come close to explaining the drop-off in
corner threes on its own.
所以从这份数据 还可以看出教练执教的影响
去年灰狼让对手每场可以出手6.2次 但是在换了经验丰富的Rick Adelman之後
今年对手只能出手4.3次 算是联盟排第五少的
This is especially so when you look at Adelman’s former team, the Rockets.
Houston last season allowed the second-fewest corner-three attempts, trailing
only the Bulls, but they’ve allowed more than average this season. In fact,
the Rockets are on pace to allow about 30 more corner three tries in this
66-game season than they did in the full 82 last season.
而且去年Adelman执教的火箭队 是上季让底线三分出手第二少的! (仅公牛之後)
但是今年的火箭 在Adelman走之後 对手的底线三分出手 是多於联盟平均
换算总数 火箭的步调打完66场 对手总底线三分出手 会比去年的82场多30次
In what probably amounts to a heavy dose of good luck, the Wolves have held
opponents to 28.4 percent shooting on corner threes this season. That is
unsustainable, but perhaps another sign of how much Adelman emphasizes
contesting this shot.
似乎有点运气成份 今年的灰狼对手的底线三分不但出手少
命中率还只有28.4% 不过也许这也要归功於Adelman要求球员能出去挑战对手投篮
Doug Collins’ Philladelphia team, filled with rangy and quick athletes, has
effectively shut down the corner three for two years running. Only Chicago has
allowed fewer such shots combined over the last two seasons, and Philly
opponents have shot below the league average from the corner in both seasons.
文前提到的76人队 由Doug Collins带领一群体能好速度快的球员
连续两年 很有效的吓阻对手出手底线三分 (两年总数只多公牛)
两年内对手的底线三分命中率 也低於联盟平均
Another coach to watch: Lawrence Frank. The Pistons are right behind Philly in
corner-three attempts allowed after surrendering many more than average last
season while playing at a tortoise-like pace. Frank, of course, is a
defense-first coach who spent 2010-11 with the Celtics, a team that patrols the
corner well.
另一个你可以注意的教练 是Lawrence Frank 去年防守不好得活塞队
在Lawrence的执教下 今年对手底线三分出手数只输给76人排第三
他是一个防守排第一的教练 10-11年他在Celtics体系工作
Celtics也是把角落守得很好得球队之一
Likewise, the Lakers are allowing about 1.2 fewer attempts from the corner this
season under Mike Brown.
湖人今年在Mike Brown的执教下 比去年让对手少出手底线三分1.2次
‧ Luck may play a part. It would be interesting to spend a bit more time with
these numbers to see how much teams can really control opponent shooting
percentages from this spot. League observers ranging from Phoenix coach Alvin
Gentry to Basketball Prospectus genius Kevin Pelton have argued that random
luck plays a fairly large role in three-point percentage against, as evidenced
by how the same stat often varies hugely from year-to-year on teams that
undergo very little roster turnover.
如果我可以在研究久一点 也许可以发现
那些球队可以让对手在底线三分的命中率不高
不过很多篮球专家 包括太阳队教练简崔
认为有时候只是随机的运气 影响着三分球的命中率
所以同样的一个数据 即使球员名单变化不大
每年跟每年也许都有很大的差异
San Antonio, for instance, is holding teams to 36 percent shooting on corner
threes this season after yielding that ghastly 47 percent figure last season.
Is that luck, or has Popovich’s club sharpened its focus?
像是今年的马刺 只让对手底线三分36%
但是去年对手却有超好得47%
是运气成份 还是波波今年改变得防守方针?
--
※ 发信站: 批踢踢实业坊(ptt.cc)
※ 转录者: eertllams (71.236.225.133), 时间: 03/30/2012 12:31:20
※ 编辑: eertllams 来自: 71.236.225.133 (03/30 12:31)
1F:推 s817242000 :专业 03/30 12:33
2F:推 sssfrost :打破「中距离是王道」、「新世代球员爱耍帅投三分」 03/30 12:34
3F:→ sssfrost :的迷思 03/30 12:35
4F:推 aRLJ :感觉是规因谬误?应该是因为大部分的底线三分通常是来 03/30 12:35
5F:推 lenta :看到底线三分就想到天残脚 03/30 12:35
6F:→ aRLJ :自妙传传出的空档? 03/30 12:35
7F:推 DASHOCK :我觉得底线三分很难瞄耶 距离不好抓 03/30 12:36
8F:→ aRLJ :应该很少有人是自己运到底线投三分的吧= = 03/30 12:36
9F:→ aRLJ :而通常非底线的三分大多是在有人防守的情况下出手, 03/30 12:37
10F:→ aRLJ :所以命中率自然没那麽高~ 03/30 12:37
11F:推 howsiao :中距离本来就是超级没效率的得分方式,白痴才投中距离 03/30 12:37
12F:推 sssfrost :应该是说底线三分是容易透过战术设计传导出来的空档 03/30 12:38
13F:推 kee32 :楼上是在骂Karl Malone吗? 03/30 12:38
14F:→ kee32 :(我是指豪洨) 03/30 12:38
15F:→ sssfrost :就像掉大角传球一样,拉开场上空间最好的方式就是 03/30 12:39
16F:推 sqark912 :推!! 03/30 12:39
17F:→ sssfrost :站位远一点。我记得版上有一篇 Battier 的介绍文 03/30 12:39
18F:→ sssfrost :里面有特别介绍底线三分的重要性,Battier 是佼佼者 03/30 12:39
19F:推 aRLJ :是呀~sss大讲的专业多了XD 03/30 12:39
20F:→ sqark912 :豪洨大顺便骂到大卫西 03/30 12:39
21F:嘘 liboy1122 :howsiao故意讲反话XD 篮求场上最容易得分的方式 03/30 12:40
22F:→ oicecnir :切入最好传的外线就底线三分啊..视野比较看的到 03/30 12:40
23F:推 Drexler :这个概念蛮久了 现在比较有系统整理 推一个 03/30 12:40
24F:→ liboy1122 :就是中距离 不要说nba了 就连一般民众在打篮球 03/30 12:40
25F:→ liboy1122 :也都是用中距离得分 叫他们切入上篮 一堆人不会 03/30 12:41
26F:→ liboy1122 :但是他们光靠中距离 就吃死一堆人 03/30 12:41
27F:→ oicecnir :太阳和马刺也都有底线的三分咖..像脏包 03/30 12:41
28F:→ howsiao :最烂最烂的就是接近三分线的远距离二分 03/30 12:42
29F:→ liboy1122 :底线3分是最好进的吧 正面3分反而困难度比较高XD 03/30 12:42
30F:→ howsiao :两次踩线三分基本就等於一失误 03/30 12:42
31F:推 Broli :平均而言中距离的确是场上最低效率的得分方式 03/30 12:42
32F:→ Delicious0 :蓝下靠身材 中距离靠准度 3分後靠准度+运气 03/30 12:42
33F:→ Broli :上季来看 3-9尺,10-15尺,16-23尺命中率全都低於40% 03/30 12:43
34F:推 sssfrost :这边讲得是效率...什麽容易不容易?我记得用期望值 03/30 12:43
35F:→ oicecnir :然後就有底线三分射手的开後门战术也跟着出现 03/30 12:43
36F:→ sssfrost :去计算,三成出头的三分命中率比得上五成中距离命中 03/30 12:43
37F:→ szuta :中距离的威胁是防守负责范围的覆盖,是必需有的武器 03/30 12:43
38F:→ szuta :跟效率无关,中距离的威胁性影响了外线与篮下的空档 03/30 12:44
39F:→ sssfrost :何况三分在盯人防守中又可以拉开进攻空间,中距离? 03/30 12:44
40F:→ oicecnir :感觉好像还是差在防守的差别..中距离会被守的机会大 03/30 12:44
41F:推 Broli :但Short 2买犯规比例高,Long 2则是最不建议的 03/30 12:45
42F:推 pkpk10654 :你知道的太多了... 03/30 12:46
43F:→ oicecnir :所以才觉得TERRY超强..急停跳投中距离那麽准.. 03/30 12:46
44F:→ TauriCrab :底线三分对射手的干扰是最少的 有两边是边线啊 03/30 12:46
45F:嘘 liboy1122 :灌蓝和上篮最有效率? 那为什麽连nba比赛中 每场 03/30 12:49
46F:→ liboy1122 :上篮或灌篮的球都那麽少见? 03/30 12:49
47F:推 jacky77437 :有效率不代表次数多 03/30 12:50
48F:→ goldfire :难怪581都投三分 03/30 12:50
49F:→ bfetter :灌篮跟上篮命中率比较高吧... 03/30 12:50
50F:推 jimmy30637 :借转 03/30 12:55
※ jimmy30637:转录至看板 MiamiHeat 03/30 12:55
51F:推 unlock :又不是没人守 你以为上篮和灌篮有那麽容易吗 03/30 12:55
52F:推 XinJay :干 所以581爱投三分其来有自? 03/30 13:06
53F:→ sxing6326 :出手高又准的中距离射手才是稀有财 03/30 13:06
54F:推 duke7814 :借转改变巨大板 感谢 03/30 13:07
※ 发信站: 批踢踢实业坊(ptt.cc)
※ 转录者: duke7814 (114.39.24.173), 时间: 03/30/2012 13:07:57
55F:推 jerod:特别的论点,老艾,水喔! 03/30 19:25