Community Q&A 2 Mike Heiberg (Senior Game Designer on StarCraft II), David Kim (Associate Game Balance Designer on StarCraft II) [ top ] 麦克海柏格 (星海争霸二资深游戏设计师) 金大卫 (星海争霸二游戏平衡设计助手) (注: 金应该是Blizz里面负责电子竞技的人, 包括Blizzcon, WWI比赛选手邀请和项目) Bornakk: Up next we have some Starcraft II questions, to help answer them in their first appearance on BlizzCast we our Associate Game Balance Designer David Kim and one of our Senior Game Designers Mike Heiberg here to help us. Welcome to BlizzCast guys! 波纳克: 接下来我们有些星海争霸二的问题。我们邀请到第一次来上Blizzcast的游戏平衡 设计助手大卫，以及我们的资深游戏设计师麦克来协助我们回答问题。欢迎来到BlizzCast! Mike Heiberg: Thank you. David Kim: Thanks. [ 47:04 ] 麦克: 谢谢你。 大卫: 谢谢 Bornakk: The first question is from D10 at teamliquid.net – What is the reason for the decreased mineral collection by workers? (It goes from 8 to 6 per round.) Is it better worker A.I. or a more economy heavy game maybe? 波纳克: 第一个问题是来自液态战队的D10发问的 - 把工兵每次采集矿物的数量减少是为 了甚麽? (目前采集量从8减少到6)是因为工兵的人工智慧设计，或者是要加重经济影响? Mike Heiberg: The harvest rates for classic and Starcraft II are basically the same - 麦克: 采集速率在星海争霸与星海争霸二里基本上是一样的 - David Kim: It feels faster though, the minerals anyway. 大卫: 感觉起来好像比较快，我指的是矿物。 Mike Heiberg: It feels faster at certain points, certainly more so mid to late game but it kind of depends on the race and the expansions and stuff. I think that’s a matter of when you cap out on three per mineral field, just how much income you get versus – like in Starcraft a lot of times you get up to like two per mineral field and you couldn’t quite tell if you were capped out or not because there’s a lot of guys moving around and a lot of times you have an empty mineral field for a few seconds here and there. 麦克: 某些情况下感觉好像比较快，尤其是中後期的游戏。但事实上还是要看你的种族， 分基地或是其他东西。我想这个问题是出在於，当你每个水晶矿分配三个工兵，也就是相 同的收入，比较於星海争霸里面你每个晶矿会放两个工兵。你不太能很精准的看出来你的 工兵数量是否足够，因为这些工兵会跑来跑去，而且常常发生随机晶矿没人采集的情况。 When we did the original Starcraft harvesting numbers they were just pulling back way too much minerals because the units path so much better and they don’t do the strange harvesting A.I. that classic Starcraft did. But yeah, that’s why when we put in the original numbers they were harvesting way too fast and we had to take it down a notch. We first tried – we tried a lot of things – we tried bringing their movement speed down, then we had a lot of problems, with an SCV moves slower that means you can’t scout as quickly right, you can’t run away from certain threats, you can’t like dance around and avoid a zealot anymore. You know same thing with some of the other slower units but we tried other things like the acceleration, tweaking how fast they accelerate and decelerate, that got really tricky with how good the unit feels when you’re moving him around. So then we tried how much time they spend at the mineral field, which is actually still in there, right now a unit will bring back 6 per trip instead of 8, but at the same time he will spend a little less time at the mineral field. So overall the amount of time that he spends going back and forth he comes out to about the same harvesting rate as a single SCV in the original Starcraft. 当我们设定采集数量跟星海争霸相同时，他们会带回来过多的矿物。因为现在单位路径已 经大幅地改善，工兵们也不会像星海争霸一样，做出很奇怪的采集模式。但这的确让我们 在工兵使用跟原来一样的采集数量时，他们挖得太快也太多了，所以我们必须向下微调。 我们第一次尝试修改时 - 我们试过许多方法 - 试着降低他们的移动速度，不过这制造了 更多问题，当你的SCV 移动速度变慢了，代表你没法快速的出去侦查，也不能逃离某些危 机，譬如说透过微操跳舞闪避狂战士。你知道其他的慢速单位也有这个问题，但我们试着 用其他方法，例如加速功能，改变他们起步的速度以及煞车的距离。这边的确颇为复杂， 影响到当你重新移动这个单位时的手感。然後我们试着改变他们采矿的所需时间，也就是 目前这个模式。现在工兵每趟带回来的晶旷是6而非以前的8。所以整体来看，包括他来回 的时间与带回来的数量，是跟在星海争霸里单一SCV的采集速率相同的。 Overall we’re trying to make the feel of the harvesting about the same as it was in classic Starcraft where you really have to think about how much money you have and the minerals-gas ratio and what you can afford to do. How do you think it’s feeling for the whole? [ 47:20 ] 整体来说我们试着让采集频率跟星海争霸是一样的，这样你也能确实知道你有多少金钱， 以及晶矿 -瓦斯比例，还有你接下来能发展甚麽。你觉得这个对整体游戏影响如何? Bornakk: Yeah- does this affect overall units and how they move? I’ve heard the pathing for StarCraft II has been much improved since the original StarCraft. 波纳克: 是的- 这会影响到所有的单位，以及他们的移动模式吗? 我听说星海争霸二里的 移动路径比起原本星海争霸有大幅度的改善。 David Kim: Okay the pathing is actually pretty interesting because a lot of the tier 1 units, especially the zerglings and the zealots perform a lot better because they can get into places easier. 大卫: 好的，路径的确是个很有趣的问题，因为许多一级兵种，尤其是异形虫和狂战士的 效率更好，因为他们能更轻松地抵达定位。 Mike Heiberg: We have tried to tweak some of the interaction of some of the earlier units with respect to pathing and create a lot of interesting gameplay with not just the types of units that you’re mashing together but the ways that they’re meeting each other on the battlefield. Where in classic Starcraft you could throw a couple zealots on your choke and zerglings coming in would have a hard time getting past them just because you can only fit so many zerglings up against the zealots right? Now you have a similar thing but at the same time out in the field if you have zealots versus zerglings the zealots have trouble because the zerglings wrap around them, start devouring them. Sometimes it helps to even back up your zealots against a wall or a cliff edge and reduce the amount of wrap around that the zerglings can pull off. 麦克: 我们试着改变某些早期单位的相互作用，并且期待路径修正能让游戏内容更加有变 化。不只是在出击时的兵种搭配，而是你在战场上遭遇时所有可能发生的情况。在原始星 海争霸里你可以指派一对狂战士去挡住来袭的异形虫，异形虫很难通过他们，因为每只狂 战士都能以一档百。现在你有一个类似的情况，但把战场转到平原上面，同样是狂战士对 抗异形虫，狂战士就陷入了大麻烦。因为异形虫可以包抄，并且慢慢地蚕食他们。有时候 你把狂战士拉到墙角或是峭壁旁边会有帮助，减少他们被异形虫包围的数量。 David Kim: Yeah and the wrap around itself is a little easier to pull off I guess because the A.I. takes care of some of that for you but you do still need the micro if you want to get the maximum out of your melee units. 大卫: 是的，现在包围的操作比拉开简单一点，我想是因为人工智慧有插手帮忙，但你仍 是需要微操作来让你的近战单位发挥最大输出。 Mike Heiberg: Yeah the pathing of zerglings, will instead of just going around and finding some place they can fit on the other side of the zealot they’ll actually try and nudge up a little closer to the other zerglings so they can fit more of them in which is just kind of something that we got with the updated pathing. 麦克: 关於异形虫的路径，从以前四处游走并且找寻一个能攻击到狂战士的角度，进化成 他们会稍微贴近另一只异形虫，让他们能在小区域里塞进更多只异形虫。 David Kim: We also have the difference in deceleration. In our game the unit knows when it’s going to stop so it starts decelerating at the exact right moment so that it stops at the exact spot that it’s ordered to go to. Whereas in the original it didn’t check as frequently so even if you told it to go somewhere it might stop a half an inch past it or a half an inch before it. 大卫: 我们也在煞车方式做出了改变。在我们的游戏里单位知道他们甚麽时候该停下来， 所以他们会在适当的时间开始减速，直到停在他们被确切命令的位置。这在原始星海争霸 里并没有去时常检查路径，所以你叫他们去某个地方，他们可能会提早停下来，或是跑过 那个目标一点点。 Mike Heiberg: Right, a lot of times you’d be floating your guardians in to take out some spore colony or something and they’d float a little too close and you’d be like “Whoa!” and you’d have to back a couple of them out. They’re a little more intelligent now about not floating directly into danger when they don’t have to. 麦克: 的确，很多时候你必须操控你的守望者来摧毁对空胞子群或甚麽的，然而有时他们 会靠的太近，你就会很干，必须把其中一两只往後拉开。现在他们比以往稍为聪明一点， 不再会乱飘，靠近他们不必要遭受的危险之中。 David Kim: So all in all you can give more precise orders and the units will do exactly what you want to instead of just doing whatever they wanted. 大卫: 所以总归来讲你可以给他们更精准的命令，单位也会忠实的去执行，而不是随意作 着他们想干的事情。 Bornakk: It will be a little more consistent? 波纳克: 他们会变得更合群了? David Kim: Yeah it will be more consistent. 大卫: 是的，没有讨厌的死小孩了。 Mike Heiberg: Yeah for a game like Starcraft we really want a lot of consistency in how units behave when you tell them to do something because you know this is a game that we hope to be played at a very pro level where people want very precise control over everything that their units are doing. I tell a guy to go there he should go exactly there, I tell a guy to attack over there, he should attack to exactly that point and not roughly what I was telling him to do. So basically trying to fine tune the behavior that you get what you expect out of the unit when you tell him to do something is definitely one of our goals. [ 50:03 ] 麦克: 像星海争霸这样的游戏，我们真的希望单位都有一致的行动，你叫他们做甚麽就做 甚麽。因为你知道我们希望这个游戏能打进相当职业水准的层次，玩家希望对於每样事物 和他们要求单位的动作都要有精准的操控。我告诉一个家伙他要去哪边，他就会一丝不苟 地站在那里；我告诉一个家伙去攻击那边，他应该彻底地去攻击那个点，而不是跟大概也 许可能的打混阿兵哥一样。基本上我们在细微的调整这些单位行为，让你下了一个命令之 後，能得到预期的结果。这也绝对是我们的目标之一。 Bornakk: How do the three races feel right now in terms of their resource consumptions in relation to the more popular strategies seen here at Blizzard? 波纳克: 那麽三个种族各自的资源消耗情况，以及各项战术的相关性，Blizz是怎麽看的? David Kim: Resource-wise the three races feel pretty similar. Terrans usually have to mix in mineral-only units such as marines or jackals with their army and with Zerg you can do the same sort of stuff you could do in the original just like fast mutalisks, or fast lurkers, but on top of that we also have interesting strategies, like surprise strategies, such as going fast banelings. 大卫: 从资源运用来看三个种族跟以往类似。人类通常需要混编专吃晶旷的单位，例如陆 战队或是豺狼，配合他们其他的军队；而异形则是跟以往差不多，你可以打速飞螳，直升 遁地兽。但除此之外我们也有些有趣的新战术，让人措手不及的突袭，譬如速柏油虫等。 Mike Heiberg: Yeah and you know the other races like reapers and banshees and whatnot, but yeah it’s really a tough decision in the early game to choose how you want to spend your gas, do you want to go to one of the rush strategies? Do you want to tech up to the higher stuff that’s more stable? Or do you want to focus on upgrades and pushing with low tier units? Until you expand you really have to choose what kind of options you want to pick from. 麦克: 你知道其他的种族，例如死神或是女妖式以及诸如此类的，在游戏初期你的确很难 决定要怎麽运用你的气矿，你是想要执行一次快攻策略呢? 或是升级科技直到高接兵种打 稳呢? 或是你想要专注在提升攻防，利用低阶单位推进战线呢? 直到你开矿之前你都必须 要审视你目前有的选择。 David Kim: And also because of that, scouting becomes extremely important because there are more options for each player. 大卫: 就因如此，侦查变得极端重要，也因每个玩家现在有更多的选择。 Mike Heiberg: Yeah when you have so many different options to choose from and more raiding options with things like reapers and banshees – scouting, you really have to get out there and see what they’re doing and how vulnerable they are to different strategies and different tactics. [ 53:36 ] 麦克: 当你有许多不同的发展路线，以及更多的游击单位例如死神和女妖式时 - 侦查，你 真的必须去敌方阵地看看他们的发展，发掘他们在不同战略战术下的弱点。 Bornakk: This next question comes from inbroodwar.de – The new infest and corrupt abilities are all time limited. Is there any plan for a spell that changes the owner of the unit permanently like the old Dark Archon mind control? 波纳克: 下一个问题来自硬怒火点德国 - 新的感染和腐化能力都有时间限制。有没有计画 让一个技能可以永久地改变某单位的操控玩家，如同暗影破坏能的心灵控制? Mike Heiberg: Well when we were doing the classic Starcraft mind control we were finding that it actually resulted in some pretty big swings in balance where basically you mind control a large unit, say a Battlecruiser, and now the difference in power from the two different armies is like two Battlecruisers because he lost one and you gained one. So seeing as in Starcraft II we have a few more of those high impact units, we have Colossi, we have Motherships, and Queens, that’s a very scary type of spell to be still bringing into the game, I mean we have more opportunities for those large swings in balance. 麦克: 当我们在做原始星海争霸时，我们发现心灵控制在平衡上面有很大的影响。基本上 当你心灵控制一个大单位，拿末日巨兽级大和号来说好了，在双方的军力上是造成两艘大 大和号的差距，因为他损失一艘而你得到一艘。所以从星海争霸二角度来看，我们现在有 的高影响力单位更少了，我们有巨神兵，有神族母舰，以及后虫。他们都有十分可怕的技 能，但我们仍然把他加到游戏里。也就是说，我们可能会碰到在平衡性上更严峻的挑战。 David Kim: Okay so in Starcraft I the mind control was pretty high tech and difficult to get to so you rarely saw it in actual games. 大卫: 这也是星海争霸一里心灵控制是个相当高阶的技能，难以研发出来，你也很少在游 戏里看到他。 Mike Heiberg: It was also pretty difficult to pull off for most people. 麦克: 对於大部分玩家而言也很难施展。 David Kim: So if we were to make it so that it is more accessible in SC2, there would definitely have to be restrictions such as “can’t mind control the Queen.” 大卫: 所以如果我们加入这个，而星海2又比较容易上手，我想免不了会有这种限制例如 "无法心灵控制后虫。"之类的。 Mike Heiberg: Right and Motherships, you can’t be taking out some of the unique units to each race. 麦克: 母舰也是，你不能就这样轻松解决每族的独特单位。 David Kim: Yeah and if that’s the case then we’re kind of diverting away from the original Starcraft mind control mechanic which had no restrictions like that. 大卫: 真是这样的话，我们就必须去改变心灵控制的游戏设定，不能跟原始星海争霸一样 没有限制。 Mike Heiberg: What about infestation? The question actually was talking about... 麦克: 关於感染呢? 这问题的确最近有提过.. Bornakk: Yeah, I mean infestation also was really hard to pull off, but generally speaking wasn’t too big of a thing in most of the games I’ve seen, so what’s the need for that to be time limited? 波纳克: 对啊，我指的是要拿掉感染不太可能吧，但在大部分我所看过的游戏里又不是甚 麽很重要的课题。所以为什麽他需要时间限制? Mike Heiberg: Right, in classic Starcraft infesting someone’s command center was really more of an insult. 麦克: 的确，在原始星海争霸里，感染某个玩家的指挥中心比较像是嘲笑他。 David Kim: I guess it’s sort of the same thing because it’s tier 3 right now, and you need the infestor pit as well as the infestation research, which means it won’t be that easy to pull off considering at that point of the game. 大卫: 我想这个情况也差不多，因为他现在是个三级主堡才有的技能，你也需要感染者聚落 ，并且研发感染，也就是说在游戏里你不会这麽轻易能研发出这个技能。 Mike Heiberg: It’s actually a little higher tech but it ends up being a bit easier to pull off than classic Starcraft infestation - off the Queen. You got to get it down to burning then bring in a Queen and at that point it’s like half the time the building dies anyway before you get it off. 麦克: 他的确需要比较高的科技，但事实上还是比原始星海争霸 - 透过后虫感染要来得简 单一点。你必须要把建筑物打到烧起来，在建筑物红血爆炸前，赶紧拉一只后虫过来感染。 David Kim: But the difference is you don’t actually take over the building it just infests it until it’s cleared out or the duration fades, whichever mechanic we decide to go with. 大卫: 但目前的相异处在於，你不需要实际去接管那栋建筑物，感染会一直保持直到被清 除或是时限终了，这也是我们目前的设计方向。 Mike Heiberg: Right and at the same time you’re not feeding money into it when it’s infested to produce infested marines you’re actually just getting them for free. 迈克: 同时你也不需要投注任何资源在上面，他会自动生产被感染的陆战队，炸很大炸不 用钱。 David Kim: So it’s definitely more usable and... 大卫: 所以他的确更有用了而且... Mike Heiberg: It’s one of those spells that basically wasn’t seeing much play at all in classic Starcraft except in the weird cases where you were just trying to make someone feel bad for how much you’re owning them. 迈克: 这个技能在原始星海争霸里，也是属於不常见的技能，除非是很特殊的例子。如果 你想要让某位玩家抓狂，并且展示你有多强的话。 Bornakk: Sending a bunch of kamikaze marines at them? 波纳克: 派遣一堆神风陆战队过去? Mike Heiberg: Yeah, like the, “Oh, I’m going to triple nuke you!” type stuff. 迈克: 是啊，就很像是"喔喔，我要给你核弹三连中出!"之类的。 David Kim: Yeah and for the Corrupter, I guess we decided on what we decided on was because we get the same feel for the mind control but minus all the balance problems that we have to face. 大卫: 关於腐化者，我想我们之所以这样做是因为，他跟心灵控制很像，但是我们面临在 平衡性上面的问题少很多。 Mike Heiberg: Right. You get that unit sort of on your side but at the same time you’re not grabbing them and moving them around, performing assaults with them. 迈克: 没错。你可以掌控那个单位，但同时你不能操控他随意移动，利用他们展开攻击。 David Kim: We also like the interaction between the two players. The guy that’s doing the corrupting can actually focus target the low health units to kill them first whereas the opponent can react by either pulling his troops away or just killing the corrupted unit fast depending on how much health the unit is at. 大卫: 我们也喜欢他在两名玩者之间的互动，所产生的效果。使用腐化能力的玩家可以先 集中火力瞄准低生命值的单位，直到对手反应过来，要吗是拉开他的部队，或者是先下手 干掉被腐化的单位，端看那个单位还剩下多少生命值。 Mike Heiberg: Right we want to allow those types of little micro decisions where in the middle of the battle: “Should I focus on his guys, his Corrupters? Should I focus on my own corrupted units because I’m not getting them back? Or should I back off and make those basically invalid because there’s nobody nearby for them to be messing with?”. 迈克: 我们想要让这些细微操控和抉择出现在战场上:"我应该集中火力在他的部队，他的 腐化者? 还是我应该集中火力先干掉我被腐化的单位，因为我不可能再抢回来了? 或是我 应该先撤退放弃他们，因为基本上附近我没有足够的兵力可以对抗他们?" David Kim: Whereas the original Starcraft mind control mechanic was more all or nothing that doesn’t have as much like immediate player interaction like corrupt does. 大卫: 在原始星海争霸里，心灵控制能力的概念是要吗有，要吗没有，这些是没法像腐化 能力一样，带给玩家这种直接性的互动。 Mike Heiberg: Yeah it’s basically, “That unit’s mine, now I try and back my Dark Archon off before it dies.” 迈克: 基本上，"那个单位是我的，现在我得拉回我的暗影破坏能，别让他死了" Bornakk: Well that wraps it up for another episode of BlizzCast. Thanks again to Jon, Russell, Jeff, David, and Mike for spending their time with us today and making it all happen. Be sure to tune into the next episode of Blizzcast as we will be conducting interviews with some of the lead designers for the newly announced Diablo 3. 波纳克: 好的，我们会在别的BlizzCast里来聊这个。再次谢谢你们，琼，罗素，杰夫， 大卫，以及迈克，谢谢你们今天的时间与我们分享。请大家锁定下次的BlizzCast，我们会 带来更多有关新发表的暗黑破坏神三首席设计师的访谈。 Thanks to our listeners for tuning in and we’ll see you next time! 感谢所有的听众，我们下次再见 -- EP5没有星海争霸二部分 -- → powerpoint:这次 我真的是龟懒趴火 → powerpoint:整个都是火!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! → powerpoint:fire!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! → powerpoint:die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 推 Mink0417:fire!!!!!!!!!!!!! die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! --

※ 发信站: 批踢踢实业坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From: 155.98.80.182 ※ 编辑: Kendai 来自: 155.98.80.182 (02/07 06:02)