作者XBogaerts (上大联盟啦 爽)
看板RedSox
标题[情报] Boras on Ellsbury
时间Fri Sep 6 18:07:07 2013
Boras compares Ellsbury to Carl Crawford (and an aircraft carrier)
http://0rz.tw/bFweG
The Red Sox have keen interest in re-signing star center fielder Jacoby
Ellsbury, according to people familiar with their thinking. However, Red Sox
connected people are suggesting now that if Ellsbury's market goes well into
the nine-figure arena – and considering their own $142 million deal for Carl
Crawford three winters ago among other comps, it could happen – they aren't
necessarily optimistic that Boston will be able to retain him.
根据对红袜策略思考熟悉的人表示,红袜很有兴趣和Ellsbury签约。「不过」,相关人士
表示如果Ellsbury不只进入九位数的世界还进入很深的话─被尻佛$142M毒药约吓到的红
袜再签约的机会不乐观。 ($100M数量级)
The Red Sox tried to re-sign Ellsbury sometime before this season, and all
indications are they will try again. The issue is whether they have interest
in getting into a bidding war that could go easily past the $100 million
mark, well past it if you listen to Ellsbury's agent Scott Boras' words
Thursday.
红袜在季前试图重签,而各方消息也指出红袜会再试一次。但是照着Boras的说法,无论
红袜有没有意愿加入抢人大战,总价码都会远超过九位数大关。
Boston had huge success dealing last winter in what's been dubbed the “
mid-range” market, scoring big with its deals for Shane Victorino, Mike
Napoli and others, and that strategy may be weighing on them. It's no
surprise there are people within the Red Sox hierarchy who aren't anxious to
return to the $100 million-plus type deals that haven't always paid off for
them.
上一个冬天红袜在「中阶市场」中打了漂亮的一仗,Shane Victorino、Mike Napoli等人
成了策略中的主角。所以出现认为不急着去和不见得成功的$100M等级球员签约的红袜人
也不令人意外。
Boras, in an interview with CBSSports.com, made clear what he thinks of the “
mid-range” market strategy and where he thinks Ellsbury stands, saying, “
Free agency is like the Navy. You can have a number of mid-range missiles,
but they only work as long as you have the aircraft carrier to put them on.”
Boras在CBSSports.com的访谈中声明他对「中阶市场策略」以及Ellsbury价值的想法:
「自由球员就向海军,你可以拥有一些中程飞弹,但是那要有航母来载才有用。」
"I think any team would say in a perfect world they would stick to
shorter-term deals," Red Sox general manager Ben Cherington said Thursday.
"There's always exceptions. We obviously made an exception in [Dustin]
Pedroia's case."
Ben Cherington在今天提及:「我想任何一支球队都只想短约,只是总是有例外。显然
小派就是其中一个例子。」
The Red Sox gave Pedroia an eight-year, $110 million deal when they signed
him to an extension in July.
红袜在七月跟小派签了一纸八年、$110M的合约。
The implication in Boras' comment is that Ellsbury is an aircraft carrier.
While some may not view him as a mega star, as Boras pointed out he is a
former winner of a Gold Glove award and a Silver Slugger who's again leading
his league in stolen bases.
Boras的「暗示」中,Ellsbury就是航母。虽然一些人不认为他是巨星,不过Boras表示
他可是前金手套得主、银棒奖得主而且今年再度成为盗垒王领先者。
Some may point to Ellsbury's inability to get back to the slugging form of
2011, when he led the American League in total bases and finished second in
MVP voting to Justin Verlander despite the Red Sox's historic collapse, but
Boras points to Ellsbury's many attributes in positioning him as a major star
in this marketplace, specifically noting his ability to steal 50 bases, score
100 runs and post a .750-plus OPS.
一些人认为Ellsbury再也无法像2011年那样干球─那年垒打数美联第一,而且虽然身处黑
暗的2011年却依然拿到MVP第二名─但是Boras表示他的各种贡献让他在市场上拥有巨星地
位,特别是50盗能力、得分100分以及超越.750 OPS的组合。
A couple executives on other teams mentioned B.J. Upton, who got a $75.2
million, five-year deal, as a possible free-agent comp, but that may be a
management-leaning guess considering Upton's lack of consistency and low
batting averages even before this year. (Yet other execs say they believe
he'll indeed get nine figures).
一些他队经理表示Ellsbury可能会像B.J. Upton一样拿到五年$75.2M,但是那可能是带队
考量的猜测─因为Upton稳定性不佳,打击率也不高。(也有其他人说九位数正常)。
***
在此补充Mark Polishuk的文章 http://t.co/WTW6wQFUGm
Some executives tell Heyman that Ellsbury could be in line for a
five-year/$75MM deal like B.J. Upton while others think the Boston outfielder
will indeed crack the $100MM mark. My guess is that Ellsbury seems like a
lock for a $100MM+ contract on the open market this offseason due to both his
talents and because this winter's free agent outfielder market is rather
slim. MLBTR's Tim Dierkes has had Ellsbury rated no lower than third
throughout his 2014 Free Agent Power Rankings since the season began, and
Ellsbury has claimed the No. 2 position (behind only Robinson Cano) for the
last two months.
有些经理告诉Heyman说Ellsbury会拿到B.J. Upton等级的约,有些则说会拿超过$100M─
尤其是他有一定的天份,更重要的是今年的外野手市场很小。Tim Dierkes在2014的FA
Power Rankings中从没把Ellsbury放到前三名之外,近两个月更是都在第二名(输Cano)。
I used the Crawford deal as a comparison myself when I examined Ellsbury as a
possible extension candidate back in March 2012. At the time Ellsbury was
coming off the best season of his career -- a .321/.376/.552 slash line, 32
homers, 39 steals, 119 runs scored and a league-leading 364 total bases.
Since then, Ellsbury has hit .287/.340/.403 with just 12 homers over 941 PA,
though his 2012 season was limited to only 74 games due to injury.
2012年三月时,我个人用尻佛来比价,当时Ellsbury刚打出生涯年:.321/.376/.552、
32轰、39盗、119分以及联盟第一的364TB。2012年因为受伤只打74场(941PA);成绩缩水
到.287/.340/.403、12轰。
My proposal at the time was a seven-year, $133MM deal between Ellsbury and
the Red Sox that would have covered Ellsbury's 2013 season and his first six
free agent years. Ellsbury hasn't kept up the power since then and he turns
30 years old next week. As we saw with Michael Bourn (another Boras client)
last offseason, teams are hesitant to give major deals to speed-centric
players entering their thirties.
那时我的建议是七年$133M,涵盖了今年球季以及接下来的六年。Ellsbury之後并没有拿
出一样的炮瓦出来,而我们也能看到Michael Bourn(也是Bora$客户)上季的状况,各队
对於要不要签下以速度为主的30岁球员感到相当迟疑。
***
Boras, meantime, suggested that not only is Upton not in the ballpark but
that even Crawford comes up short as a player, as well. Jayson Werth's $126
million, seven-year deal may help Ellsbury's case, too, but Crawford is the
one who seems obvious to mention since he's a speed player like Ellsbury, and
more to the point, that was Boston's own deal.
不过Boras表示Ellsbury跟Upton不同等级,尻佛也比不上Ellsbury。Jayson Werth的七年
$126M似乎可以拿来参考,不过尻佛跟Ellsbury一样都是以速度为主的外野手,而且都是
红袜的球员。
“Two things separate Ellsbury [from Crawford]. Carl Crawford was never
proven as a leadoff hitter, and Carl Crawford is not a center fielder,''
Boras said. “They are two different animals. It's not a consideration
because he's a corner outfielder. Just think if Carl Crawford could play
center field.”
「两人不同的地方在於:尻佛并没有证明他能稳坐首棒打者,而且他不是中外野手、是左
外野手。想像一下如果尻佛可以站CF的情形。」Boras说道。
Boras went on to mention a few other differences between Ellsbury and
Crawford.
“Carl Crawford never had success in Boston. And he never won a ring in
Boston,'' Boras said. Plus, "Crawford never hit twenty home runs, and Jacoby
hit 30," Boras added.
「尻佛不曾在红袜取得成功、不曾在波士顿拿过戒指,还有尻佛从没单季20轰过,而
Ellsbury打过30支。」
Boras also said that Ellsbury's "ceilings" of 30 homers (32 to be precise)
and 70 stolen bases, though done in different years, are "unheard of." Plus,
Boras pointed out that Ellsbury's .927 steal percentage this year ranks among
the best alltime for someone with 50 attempts, and that few of the best best
basestealers have been center fielders.
Boras还说Ellsbury的「天花板」是30轰70盗,这是从没看过的事情。(不过这两个纪录
不是在同一年),还有超过50盗的球员中,Ellsbury拥有最高的.927成功率;更重要的是
很少有顶尖盗垒者是中外野手。
Ellsbury won a ring with the Red Sox in 2007, hitting .438 in the World
Series with a 1.188 OPS, and his overall career postseason average is .261.
2007年世界大赛中Ellsbury缴出.438打击率、1.188 OPS的成绩;生涯季後赛打击率.261。
It's been quite a positive run for him in Boston. But it's quite possible he
may not be so long for Boston.
Ellsbury在红袜的表现很优异,但也有可能要告一段落了。
Word is that owner Red Sox John Henry, who just saved himself some money with
the eminently reasonable deal for star second baseman Pedroia, very much
likes Ellsbury, and Ellsbury is said to have interest in staying, as well.
But like usual it may come down to dollars and cents.
刚从小派合约省下不少钱的John Henry表示他很喜欢Ellsbury,而Ellsbury也有续留意愿
。不幸的是最後通常由钱决定结果。
It isn't known what Boston's offer was last winter, but Boston's baseball
executives are said to continue to see merit in their “mid-range” winter
strategy of a year ago, which is no surprise since it's helped catapult them
into first place after their rough 2012 season.
现在仍不清楚红袜上次给的合约内容,不过据说红袜有意延续今年靠着「中阶」市场得到
成功的策略。今年如此的成功,会延续这种策略不令人意外。
And Boston honchos seemed to be preparing for the possibility of losing
Ellsbury when they held tight to center field prospect Jackie Bradley Jr. at
the trade deadline. They instead traded shortstop Jose Iglesias quite
possibly in part because of their worries about an Ellsbury defection. One
Boston-connected person said he believes Bradley is even better in center
than Ellsbury, though it's obvious Bradley is as yet unproven as a
major-league hitter.
还有红袜也已经准备好Ellsbury走时的备案─Jackie Bradley。他们选择交易掉鹰侠,正
是因为怕失去Ellsbury。有些红袜相关人士甚至相信JBJ比Ellsbury更优,虽然他还是个
尚未证明身手的菜鸟。
The one knock on Elllsbury, other than he's showed big power in only one
year, has been about his ability to stay healthy. But while he's missed
significant time in two seasons, Boras pointed out that his injuries were
related to freak mishaps.
除了炮瓦只在一年出现之外,另一个疑虑是健康问题。但虽然他有两季缺赛很久,但
Boras指出那是意外。
“He has the genetics, like Johnny Damon. He's a durable player,” Boras
said. “The only [significant] injuries he's had are collision injuries. They
were due to exterior forces.”
「他有着像Damon一样的基因,他是个耐操的球员。他受到的大伤都是因碰撞造成的─都
是外力。」
Speaking of exterior forces, the issue ultimately will be about the
marketplace.
说到外力,这个问题最终会影响市场价值。
Ellsbury hasn't hurt himself with a typical season at age 29; he's hitting
.296 with eight homers, 51 stolen bases, 88 runs and a .775 OPS. Those are
very close to his career averages. His career percentages are .297 and .788,
and in his three previous full seasons, he's averaged 104 runs, 53 stolen
bases and 16 home runs (including his big 2011).
Ellsbury在典型的球季(29岁,今年)时没有受伤,他打出.296、八轰、51盗、88分以及
.775 OPS,这跟生涯平均(.297 BA, .788 OPS)很接近;过去三个完整球季的平均则是
104分、53盗、16轰。
The market should aid Ellsbury since many teams are awash in cash following
another profitable year, and few stars populate the marketplace. After
free-agent gem Robinson Cano, Ellsbury is seen as the player likely to land
the next biggest contract. Among outfielders, there isn't a deep roster but
rather a select few stars, including also Shin-Soo Choo, Hunter Pence, Nelson
Cruz, Carlos Beltran and Curtis Granderson.
Ellsbury的市场价值应该会随其他球队的抢夺而水涨船高,也少有球员能争抢他的市场地
位;Ellsbury很有可能成为第二贵的FA( < Cano);剩下的外野手FA只有Shin-Soo Choo,
Hunter Pence, Nelson Cruz, Carlos Beltran and Curtis Granderson。
--
*Athletic frame.
*High baseball IQ. Xander
*Smooth, fluid swing. Bogaerts
*Elite batspeed. #01
*Strong and explosive hands.
*Above-average-to-better power ceiling, potential 30 home run bat.
--
※ 发信站: 批踢踢实业坊(ptt.cc)
◆ From: 114.46.132.47
1F:推 Absioute:推 所以Ells会不会续留还是得看吸血鬼的牙齿会有多尖锐 09/06 18:22
2F:推 alex710707:133M? 100M都要考虑了 09/06 18:32
3F:推 shall:简单的说门槛是100M 我只能说要唱分手快乐了么 09/06 18:33
4F:推 scorpions:科科 前车之监就在不久前 09/06 18:42
5F:推 bensn101:在打个几年100RBI的话给他没差 QQ 09/06 19:02
6F:推 taker627:要133M 短约买个Carlos Beltran等杂鱼长大吧 09/06 19:03
7F:推 MinChuan:不然也可以试试韩籍大枪 09/06 19:36
8F:推 maxspeed150:如果是Upton等级的约就好了 09/06 19:37
9F:推 chaohsiu:价码要求太高的话,以目前红袜外野的人手应该没必要签 09/06 19:38
10F:推 lovemost:Let us see 09/06 19:38
11F:推 KayRain:问题就出在开了先例签尻佛那个烂约 09/06 20:11
12F:→ KayRain:不论还有没有power明显比尻佛好的Ells就变的怎麽开都尴尬 09/06 20:12
13F:推 jameshu0910:秋信守也是Boras的客户,川叔不知道还是吗,如过Cano没 09/06 20:20
14F:→ jameshu0910:换经纪人,今年野手顶级货都是他的客户 09/06 20:21
15F:推 Westmoreland:这季末没那市场啦 这记者是出名的Boras发话筒 09/06 20:36
16F:→ Westmoreland:1. Pedroia合约摆在那 2. JBJ MLB ready (不要酸我) 09/06 20:39
17F:→ Westmoreland:躲人天使没位置、洋基没钱,红袜进可攻退可守 09/06 20:40
18F:→ Westmoreland:开个 5yrs/$80M 就很诚意了 09/06 20:43
19F:推 TanoYuuka:有尻佛的前车之监 还会用超过9位数签一个腿哥吗? 09/06 20:44
20F:→ TanoYuuka:况且底下还有一个JBJ 09/06 20:44
21F:推 JoshBeckeet:超过小派就没签的价值了 09/06 20:45
22F:→ kazamishu:我想知道过9位数哪队会签? 09/06 20:46
23F:→ JoshBeckeet:5Y 90M差不多.... 09/06 20:47
24F:推 TanoYuuka:呃 我打错了 应该说用九位数签 09/06 20:48
25F:推 KayRain:JBJ有ready吗 09/06 20:52
26F:推 shall:别忘了JBJ没打过3A 开季是从2A直升..不是每个人都练武奇才.. 09/06 21:10
27F:→ shall:回去3A练等後 374PA .275/.374/.469 这不是相当差的数字... 09/06 21:12
28F:推 GJIRO:当然会希望Ellsbury能留下来,但价码太高的话也只好忍痛了 09/06 21:26
29F:推 hahabis:90/5真的可以考虑..看他本人愿不愿给Hometown Discount 09/06 21:54
30F:推 JButton:应该所有袜迷都希望Ellsbury留下,但之前惨痛教训时再让人 09/06 21:57
31F:→ JButton:映象深刻...所以如果太大张真的只好说再见了 09/06 21:57
32F:推 KAIS:尻佛的约是Theo签的 不影响现在的报价 可惜归可惜 09/06 22:10
33F:→ KAIS:但袜子的确没有非签小帅哥的压力在 30岁的腿哥 九位数太多了 09/06 22:11
34F:推 nbahoop:洋基开再高一定得跟......其他队就算了...感觉留不住QQ 09/06 22:12
35F:推 adsl7749:贵森森的话 球团不要脑冲 09/06 22:21
36F:推 lalalab:超过小派的合约 连考虑都不用考虑直接放走吧 09/06 22:24
37F:→ lalalab:对付波拉斯这种吸血鬼 就是让他有行无市 09/06 22:25
38F:推 tsubasa6405:洋基不太可能会开天价抢他 略高Upton的约就很有诚意了 09/06 22:30
(改一下错字)
※ 编辑: XBogaerts 来自: 114.46.132.47 (09/06 22:32)
39F:推 specialwei:虽然喜欢他但看来留不下罗!!今年没那麽可怕但相当称职 09/06 23:14
40F:→ specialwei:而且他第一棒真的打得不错 09/06 23:15
41F:推 finalzerd:Ellsbury真的是好球员,但是这文章也吹的太夸张了吧XD 09/06 23:18
42F:推 seekforever:其实他的替代不是JBJ 是夏威夷人 09/06 23:21
43F:→ seekforever:今年Victorino打成这样 不可能给Ellsbury超过1亿镁 09/06 23:22
44F:→ seekforever:OF Victorino, Nava, Gomes, JBJ, Carp 还是有竞争力 09/06 23:24
45F:→ seekforever:季末抓个1-2支可以扛第八局的牛还比较实在 09/06 23:27
46F:推 nicknhit:要我说的话,80/5就是极限。我们备案超多。最直接的JBJ不 09/06 23:40
47F:→ nicknhit:论,Brentz上来抢个位,夏威夷人移到CF也可以 09/06 23:40
48F:推 nicknhit:今年杂鱼NAVA打成这样,难道不值得给他一个位置试试?假设 09/06 23:45
49F:→ nicknhit:真的给他位置,那难道JBJ要继续蹲3A? 09/06 23:45
50F:推 nicknhit:以客观角度看,红袜跟本在谈判桌上有绝对优势 09/06 23:47
51F:推 ramiraz615:75/5能接受吗? 他的炮瓦也是忽大忽小 速度守备上垒的腿 09/07 00:02
52F:推 meteorhades:虽然明知道外野人超多 但还是希望他能留下来XD 09/07 00:44
53F:推 Jaicabai:推!! 感觉会想要100M以上的约.. 09/07 01:31
54F:推 ramirez:给30的腿哥100M失败率太高了 即使很喜欢小帅哥 09/07 02:58
55F:推 LebronKing:哄抬价格不可取 如果非要那麽贵也没办法了 09/07 10:42
56F:→ LebronKing:只好跟他说再见 09/07 10:42
57F:推 sinon2mayday:如果Ells愿意接受105M/7y倒是有可能 09/07 11:18
58F:→ mrkey:80/5 就是极限了. 09/07 12:36
59F:→ mrkey:任何东西 over 6年或是 over 100M, 就是没有任何可能性 09/07 12:37
60F:→ dennisgreat:红袜是说多太多才不太可能 09/07 14:27
61F:→ dennisgreat:感觉会落在110~120M 09/07 14:28
62F:推 spko:7Y/105M实在没有不签的道理,Peddy的约也是>6Y和>100M啊 09/07 14:33
63F:→ spko:红袜去年在中阶市场的成功不等於他们会在留人上变得吝啬 09/07 14:34
64F:→ spko:就算有Boras卡着,Ellsbury再怎麽说也是自家农场的脸之一 09/07 14:35
65F:推 Lrigpt:我觉得Peddy能长约部分原因是因为他在休息区不可取代的功能 09/07 15:01
66F:推 bobyacool:我觉得nava可以补外野的位置 不一定一定要签小帅哥吧 09/07 15:06
67F:推 alex710707:而且CF又有两个人可以补 干嘛冒险给Boras薛 09/07 15:07
68F:推 Junken:签啦 後悔的话再卖给道奇 09/07 15:14
69F:推 spko:我不觉得Ellsbury的位置有这麽容易补上,JBJ毕竟还没证明熟了 09/07 15:28
70F:→ spko:Vic不一定每年都打得像今年,更有可能回归生涯平均 09/07 15:28
71F:→ spko:Nava....谁都知道他防守不是很好 + 跑垒很有问题 XDDD 09/07 15:29
72F:→ spko:红袜有本钱跟Boras谈且不那麽容易被薛,更该尽全力留下Ells 09/07 15:30
73F:推 adsl7749:道奇专收红袜球员 签啦签啦? 09/07 15:30
74F:→ spko:而不是自恃鱼塭有人补就轻易放自家养出的本季第二大尾FA出走 09/07 15:31
75F:→ spko:我们又不是小市场球队,没必要非得去吞小市场被迫得吞的苦 09/07 15:32
76F:推 alex710707:要留也要看价码 Boras又不是吃素的 09/07 15:35
77F:→ alex710707:有钱球队放大约搞死自己的例子也不少 09/07 15:38
78F:→ spko:对,要看价码,但还没谈就觉得跟Boras谈就是在冒被他薛的险 09/07 15:38
79F:→ spko:那是还要谈甚麽 09/07 15:38
80F:推 alex710707:你觉得他签下小派那种约的可能性高吗? 09/07 16:13
81F:推 amyer:Peddy 签七年有部分原因是他的健康度,Ellsbury 签超过六年 09/07 16:48
82F:推 KayRain:对外野太乐观了吧 少了Ells哪这麽好补 09/07 16:48
83F:→ amyer:风险实在很大,肩膀动过刀不是开玩笑的。 09/07 16:49
84F:→ amyer:Ellsbury 是不好补,但也别把 JBJ 想的太差,参考一下 06 年 09/07 16:50
85F:→ amyer:Damon 的 case,签超过六年风险很大 09/07 16:51
86F:推 shall:只要开个有诚意价码/年数 续不续签是对方的问题. 而不是喊 09/07 16:55
87F:→ shall:100就要给100 有哪些球队有欠位置给的起100绑个第一棒 09/07 16:56
88F:推 KayRain:除非再签了别的外野 不然这外野实在太浅了 vic nava JBJ光 09/07 16:56
89F:→ KayRain:这样风险很大 我们不是什麽重建或几年破一次五成会满足的 09/07 16:57
90F:→ KayRain:球队吧 要求高点是对的 09/07 16:57
91F:推 bobyacool:Boras开价一定很高 不用肖想什麽佛心约了 八成会要到6y+ 09/07 16:59
92F:→ shall:最後如没签到 怎麽可能不找备胎... 09/07 16:59
93F:→ bobyacool:有CC的前车之监 只希望不是下个噩梦的开始 09/07 16:59
94F:推 maikxz:就尻佛那个智障合约啊 09/07 17:00
95F:→ maikxz:一切都给那废物合约整组毁了了 09/07 17:00
96F:推 sinon2mayday:退化再卖给道奇XDDDDDDDDD 09/07 17:19
97F:推 alex710707:要补外野也是要外野炮 CF夏威夷人跟JBJ都能顶 09/07 17:28
98F:→ alex710707:Victorino,JBJ,Ells都是同功能类型的 干嘛去追明知很贵 09/07 17:29
99F:→ alex710707:的? 如果ELLS便宜愿意佛心当然令帮别论 但可能性又不高 09/07 17:30
100F:→ alex710707:夏威夷人跟JBJ有不确定性 Ells也有啊 09/07 17:31
101F:→ adsl7749:我们能干炮的确实不多 只有老爹20HR以上 09/07 18:14
102F:→ adsl7749:ELLS要5年以上风险太大 虽然他很棒 09/07 18:15
103F:→ rockyue:今天Gardner的三垒安打 如果是小帅哥守 不知道会不会接到 09/07 18:16
104F:推 Zergling:又到了理性与感性的时间了 09/07 19:46
105F:推 jameshu0910:就说别争了,年底要换怪力史进来了 09/07 19:48
106F:推 MingXDD:Ells的稳定性比其他人都高很多吧... 09/07 21:40
107F:推 MingXDD:JBJ连实绩都没有,根本不算即战力,说Nava我还能接受 09/07 21:43
108F:推 alex710707:JBJ 3A数据又不会差到哪 再说夏威夷人风险会高到哪 09/07 21:47
109F:→ alex710707:夏威夷人 OPS 0.75以上就够用了 而且两个人都便宜 09/07 21:48
110F:→ alex710707:ELLS又不是没风险 加上要大约 运气不好100M的投资 09/07 21:48
111F:→ alex710707:可能泡汤 这样不是赌很大吗? 09/07 21:49
112F:推 kazamishu:3A再好有用吗? 09/07 21:56
113F:推 MingXDD:我不会觉得3A成绩是实绩 09/07 21:57
114F:→ MingXDD:这两年免洗筷都打超好的,但我不敢奢望会一直这样下去 09/07 21:59
115F:→ MingXDD:100M内我都能接受,最好就70~80M 09/07 22:00
116F:推 alex710707:3A数据起码是参考的数据 你当JBJ几岁? 09/07 22:00
117F:→ kazamishu:一定要等JBJ打不出来,夏神回到生涯平均,再找只CC来签? 09/07 22:00
118F:→ MingXDD:有没有炮只是爽度问题,我没有很在意 09/07 22:01
119F:→ MingXDD:没有不让JBJ打阿,我是说他风险最高,mature的风险 09/07 22:02
120F:→ alex710707:再说CC在光芒威那麽多年 那麽多年的实绩 还不是鸟掉? 09/07 22:02
121F:→ MingXDD:你愿意花多少AB给他,养不养的起来都是风险 09/07 22:03
122F:→ alex710707:23岁 3A数据又漂亮 又有夏威夷人 两个CF候选人不够用吗 09/07 22:03
123F:→ MingXDD:我想一直拿CC来举例的话,那只能期待市场上永远有好用的免 09/07 22:04
124F:→ alex710707:偏偏选个要价100M的 也不是没风险 这不蠢吗? 09/07 22:04
125F:→ MingXDD:洗筷 09/07 22:04
126F:→ alex710707:BJ Upton????? 09/07 22:04
127F:→ alex710707:如果照你们这样想 ELLS跟小派当年是新秀的时候根本没 09/07 22:05
128F:→ MingXDD:我觉得是equivocal啦,没有觉得哪个比较好,哪个比较蠢 09/07 22:05
129F:→ alex710707:机会出头 09/07 22:05
130F:推 kazamishu:至少有拉上来练过啊.. 09/07 22:07
131F:推 alex710707:JBJ打不出来又没赔到什麽 赔年薪40万美跟100M哪个高啊? 09/07 22:08
132F:→ kazamishu:打不出来 然後呢 还不是另外要再找人 09/07 22:08
133F:→ alex710707:而且你们一直忽略夏威夷人 他实绩又不少又能占CF 09/07 22:08
134F:推 MingXDD:赔上AB和买球员被坑的风险 09/07 22:08
135F:→ kazamishu:再多花一次钱 然後又一个风险 09/07 22:09
136F:→ alex710707:只要OPS不要低於0.74~0.75就可 09/07 22:09
137F:→ alex710707:那你觉得JBJ跟夏威夷人同时鸟掉机率高吗? ELLS难道风险 09/07 22:09
138F:→ kazamishu:你不能期待他每年都跟今年一样 09/07 22:09
139F:→ alex710707:又很低了? 09/07 22:09
140F:→ kazamishu:我们论点不同之处 在於我愿意把风险赌在Ells身上 09/07 22:10
141F:→ alex710707:请有"期望值" 概念 09/07 22:10
142F:→ kazamishu:没甚麽好争了 看球团决定吧 09/07 22:10
143F:推 alex710707:真的倒楣到JBJ跟夏威夷人都鸟掉就到时候再找人就好了 09/07 22:13
144F:→ alex710707:结果都还不知道JBJ是否会鸟掉 夏威夷人打出生涯年然後 09/07 22:14
145F:→ alex710707:就去预设他未来可能会下滑 两个这麽好的便宜备胎不用 09/07 22:14
146F:推 MingXDD:我的想法是买OF,所以我想要两个稳定的OF应该不为过吧 09/07 22:15
147F:→ alex710707:就先去花大钱买名牌 这... 09/07 22:15
148F:推 kazamishu:老实说 我不觉得我们没有签Ells的空间 2者不冲突阿 09/07 22:15
149F:→ MingXDD:JBJ鸟掉,你就只剩下两年约的Vic和一直捉摸不定的Nava 09/07 22:15
150F:→ alex710707:对啊 那夏威夷人不稳定吗? JBJ也才23岁3A又吓吓叫啊 09/07 22:15
151F:→ kazamishu:这名牌至少是自己产的 09/07 22:16
152F:→ alex710707:两年的时间很短吗? 09/07 22:16
153F:→ MingXDD:万一JBJ没养起来,两年後你OF就归零了 09/07 22:16
154F:→ alex710707:红袜很明显又不是走了ELLS就没人顶CF 你一直提NAVA 09/07 22:17
155F:→ alex710707:难道NAVA站CF吗? 09/07 22:17
156F:→ alex710707:啊 就两年又不短 哪个位置是没风险的 你一直鬼隐ells 09/07 22:18
157F:→ alex710707:的风险 而且有不是没好的CF 球队就废掉 09/07 22:18
158F:推 MingXDD:对我来说,Ells鸟掉的机会最低,而且是"多"一个人 09/07 22:19
159F:→ alex710707:我觉得你一直在预设立场 09/07 22:19
160F:→ alex710707:那你觉得夏威夷人跟JBJ两个同时鸟掉的机率呢? 09/07 22:20
161F:推 kazamishu:每个人风险高低的认知不同吧..不要流於意气之争... 09/07 22:20
162F:→ alex710707:again, 夏威夷人年薪才多少 JBJ才多少 ELLS要多少钱? 09/07 22:20
163F:→ alex710707:Nava是问题 我也觉得他比较难维持今年成绩 所以要补 09/07 22:21
164F:推 MingXDD:我说过是买OF,一个球队OF要有三个人,只要一个人鸟掉我就 09/07 22:21
165F:→ MingXDD:不能接受 09/07 22:21
166F:→ MingXDD:然後夏威夷人很棒大家都知道,可是我们不能买两个夏威夷人 09/07 22:22
167F:→ alex710707:的是RF或是LF 不是吗? 结果去补已有两个又便宜的CF备胎 09/07 22:22
168F:→ alex710707:那不是很奇怪? 09/07 22:22
169F:→ MingXDD:我想我们的差异点是CF和OF,我觉得OF人会不够 09/07 22:23
170F:→ MingXDD:如果只是CF可以接受你的想法 09/07 22:23
171F:→ alex710707:但是就两个CF备胎了 你还在补同样是鸟枪的Ells... 09/07 22:23
172F:→ alex710707:如果年底把JBJ跟其他顶级新秀去换史大炮 我是能理解续 09/07 22:25
173F:→ alex710707:Ells 但...可能性应该不太高 09/07 22:25
174F:推 MingXDD:Ells不是LF和RF的理想人选,可是让他守也算舒服 09/07 22:27
175F:推 alex710707:对啊 所以不是应该找个炮管大一点的LF RF吗? 09/07 22:29
176F:→ alex710707:你让Ellsbury守RF LF根本...... 09/07 22:29
177F:推 kazamishu:今年顶级OF 几乎都是吸血鬼的人吧...要找谁呢? 09/07 22:31
178F:推 alex710707:我们外野的阵容又不差 为何一定要补.. 09/07 22:34
179F:→ alex710707:JBJ,Victorino, Nava, Gomez,加上明年差不多可以上来 09/07 22:35
180F:→ alex710707:的Bryce Brentz,又没鸟到哪 09/07 22:35
181F:→ alex710707:而且3个OF鸟掉一个很严重吗 我们打击又不弱 09/07 22:36
182F:→ alex710707:勇士今年CF BJ鸟掉 RF LF也打得高於平均而已 结果现在 09/07 22:38
183F:→ alex710707:国东冠军 我是不懂为何你一执着CF鸟掉就完蛋 09/07 22:39
184F:→ bobyacool:JBJ风险比较小吧...100M签ELLS 万一有什麽意外.... 09/07 22:47
185F:→ bobyacool:钱就丢进水里面了 莫忘CC 09/07 22:47
186F:推 arrow1013:我比较同意A大的看法 09/07 22:53
187F:→ arrow1013:但没有他,袜袜明年的阵容还是很有看头 09/07 22:53
188F:→ arrow1013:JBJ攻击面有补上来最好,没补上至少还有守备~ 09/07 22:55
189F:推 alex710707:唉 我总是没耐性 有冒犯的地方请版友见谅 09/07 23:00
190F:→ makotohsia:不相信新人的话不会有Pedroia,Ells也不会这麽早成名 09/07 23:05
191F:→ makotohsia:不是有薪资空间就去给Ells又贵又长的约 09/07 23:05
192F:→ makotohsia:给的起又如何,失去薪资弹性 09/07 23:06
193F:→ makotohsia:还不如保持弹性做其他的补强 09/07 23:06
194F:→ makotohsia:保持薪资弹性、相信新人深耕农场是走的长稳的正路 09/07 23:08
195F:→ makotohsia:又大又长的约不是舍不得给 09/07 23:08
196F:→ makotohsia:大长约丢在毫无疑问的核心身上才划算(Pedroia) 09/07 23:09
197F:推 makotohsia:比起Ells,外野补强找Carlos Beltran也很好啊 09/07 23:14
198F:→ makotohsia:宁愿Overpaid压低年限找老将风险也比7年1E几千万给Ells 09/07 23:16
199F:→ makotohsia:低多了 09/07 23:16
200F:推 maikxz:7y/100M 其实也可以接受 但我不觉得 Boras 会接受 09/07 23:32
201F:推 tsubasa6405:整串看下来 MingXDD认为给70~80合理 这应该跟alex一样 09/07 23:32
202F:→ tsubasa6405:两个有同样想法和共识的人怎麽会战起来...搞不懂@@ 09/07 23:33
203F:推 towlee:如果小帅哥真的送修,价位会下修多少? 09/07 23:48
204F:→ towlee:但还是希望关键时刻他的棒子守备速度能帮助球队 09/07 23:50
205F:推 MingXDD:我比较悲观吧,新秀给我的印象是养成机率不到50% 09/08 00:02
206F:推 maxspeed150:把那种上来顶的真杂鱼放到pool里面养成机率当然不高 09/08 00:04
207F:→ MingXDD:常常有人(非针对)觉得下面有个顶级新秀就能抗助未来 09/08 00:04
208F:→ maxspeed150:JBJ已经算是风险很小的新秀了 09/08 00:04
209F:→ maxspeed150:Hassan Hazelbaker JBJ 三个只有JBJ养起来的话机率当 09/08 00:05
210F:→ maxspeed150:然不到50% 可是能这样看吗 09/08 00:05
211F:→ MingXDD:印象比较深刻的是之前的1B,常常有人说要接1B或老爹位子 09/08 00:05
212F:→ MingXDD:惨到现在我名子都忘了 09/08 00:05
213F:→ maxspeed150:Lars Anderson和JBJ状况根本不同 09/08 00:06
214F:推 makotohsia:Lars Anderson? 09/08 00:06
215F:→ maxspeed150:Lars是高中毕业生 在A+打出很漂亮的成绩後在AA被杀爆 09/08 00:06
216F:→ MingXDD:好吧,我承认我不太了解... 09/08 00:07
217F:→ maxspeed150:JBJ现在是已经在AAA打出好成绩了 09/08 00:07
218F:→ MingXDD:我是说Lars没错 09/08 00:07
219F:→ makotohsia:说到1B除了养Lars失败,倒是成功了Anthony Rizzo 09/08 00:08
220F:→ MingXDD:Kalish和Reddick?? 09/08 00:10
221F:→ MingXDD:是说Reddick现在也还不错啦,Kalish我都忘了在哪了.. 09/08 00:11
222F:推 maxspeed150:Kalish碰到的问题是受伤 这种问题谁来都一样 09/08 00:12
223F:→ maxspeed150:Ellsbury的受伤风险也不会比unproven的低 09/08 00:13
224F:推 MingXDD:查了一下Reddick今年.658烂死了,最好一年还是前年在红袜 09/08 00:14
225F:推 MingXDD:不是有痛痛人的说法? 还是真的是运气? 09/08 00:17
226F:推 shall:Reddick去年在绿帽很威吧.. 干了30发 还拿个GG 09/08 00:17
227F:推 MingXDD:今年就鸟掉啦,.658承上329个AB,你愿意再给多少AB? 09/08 00:19
228F:→ MingXDD:32发也不过.76,是很不错,但是没有32发帐面上看起来威 09/08 00:21
229F:→ MingXDD:狠一点把西多土放进来...已经连续3个OF failure了 09/08 00:22
230F:→ MingXDD:也许JBJ会不一样,希望这样,连四就太衰了 09/08 00:22
231F:推 shall:可以这样比? 那养鱼干嘛 全部都丢了 09/08 00:23
232F:推 maxspeed150:JBJ是我们自家在Ellsbury之後最好的OF农作物..... 09/08 00:26
233F:推 MingXDD:我只是表达有风险而已,养当然还是养阿 09/08 00:26
234F:→ maxspeed150:西多土还来不及证明自己就碰到怪病了 09/08 00:26
235F:推 makotohsia:要这样比小联盟可以全废了 09/08 00:26
236F:→ maxspeed150:然後要讲痛痛人的话 真不知道现在是Ellsbury比较痛还 09/08 00:26
237F:→ maxspeed150:JBJ - - 09/08 00:26
238F:→ maxspeed150:谁不知道有风险? 问题就是风险有高有低 09/08 00:26
239F:推 tsubasa6405:帅哥又痛了... 09/08 00:26
240F:→ maxspeed150:JBJ的健康状态和完成度已经让他的风险降到相对低了 09/08 00:28
241F:→ makotohsia:就算7/130million签下Ells,能保证他7年,年年 OPS850? 09/08 00:29
242F:推 MingXDD:恩,那很好,那就上来试吧 09/08 00:30
243F:→ MingXDD:不要太多延伸... 我没有要废小联盟也没有要130M签Ells 09/08 00:31
244F:推 shall:(没冒犯的意思)这样讲Reddick的话..那当初把Brandon Moss丢 09/08 00:34
245F:推 MingXDD:我也没有反对用JBJ和不签Ells,这讨论就到这吧 09/08 00:34
246F:→ shall:掉也很可惜. 09/08 00:34