作者mayfirst (2010AL冠军游骑兵)
看板Rangers
标题[讨论] Exit Cliff Lee, Enter Zack Greinke?
时间Sun Nov 21 22:40:32 2010
Exit Cliff Lee, Enter Zack Greinke?
We've already heard word that the Blue Jays and Red Sox have inquired on
Kansas City's ace, and presumably other teams will have interest in the 2009
AL Cy Young winner as well. But most people in the industry seem to be
handicapping the Texas Rangers as the favorite to land the right-hander,
particularly if they fail in their pursuit to re-sign Cliff Lee. Greinke is
capable of blocking trades to 15 teams as part of his current contract, which
will pay him $27 million through 2012 before he hits free agency, and there's
been some talk that he'd rather not pitch in a big market, particularly on
the East Coast.
That has the Rangers, coming off an AL pennant with an abundance of talent
and money, looking like the best potential landing spot. But how would the
teams match up in terms of talent? And how would adding Greinke compare to
retaining Lee? These are questions that Jon Daniels and company will
presumably answer long before having any sort of serious discussions with the
Royals, but they're the questions we're going to touch on today.
Greinke v. Lee
On one level, you have to wonder whether the Rangers would be better off
trading for Greinke or trying to sign Lee. The question isn't so much about
whether Greinke or Lee is the better pitcher at the moment. Rather, the
question is something along the lines of, "Would you rather have Lee under
contract for five years at $25M per year (my estimate) along with your young
talent, or would you rather have Greinke under contract for two years at
$13.5M per year without that additional talent?"
It's fair to say that, at the moment, Lee is the superior pitcher. He's been
a roughly 7-win pitcher in each of the past three seasons, while Greinke has
two 5-win seasons and the historic 9-win season. So we have a somewhat clear
idea of what Cliff Lee is going to be in the next couple seasons, but with
Greinke we're not really sure if he's going to show up as the 5-win ace from
2008 and 2010 or something near the 9-win monster from 2009. They've each
been quite durable, so that's not the major concern- from 2008-2010, Lee
averaged 223 innings per season while Greinke averaged 217 innings. But you
really can't deny how age could play into this thing. Lee is five years older
than Greinke, so committing five years to the 32-year-old lefty is
undoubtedly a larger risk than going for Greinke. Lee's likely to be better
next season, but can we really say the same thing for 2012, when Lee will
spend the final few weeks of the year at age 34 while Greinke is still just
27?
Really, what you're looking at here is money- is spending the extra $11.5M in
2011 and 2012, plus $25M per year in 2013, 2014 and 2015, worth retaining
some key pieces of your farm system, along with the short-term upgrade from
Greinke to Lee? It really depends on how you picture Lee's aging process. If
the Rangers believe that Lee isn't going to show significant signs of decline
for the vast majority of a five-year contract, then why would they go out of
their way to trade top young talent for the less experienced guy coming off
of a weaker season? But if they have any reservations about Lee's ability to
be an elite starter throughout the contract, it may be more reasonable for
the Rangers to take advantage of their farm system and trade for the younger,
cheaper Greinke. Because while the Rangers certainly are making a clear
effort to win in the short-term, being forced to pay $25M for a non-elite
starter in 2014 or 2015 could seriously hinder their ability to contend as
some other guys get more expensive, too.
A Possible Deal
Okay, so let's say the Rangers have decided to pursue Greinke. Heck, maybe
after watching San Francisco's top starters embarrass some of the best teams
in the game, they've decided that they can fit both Greinke AND Lee into the
budget in order to build their own dominant rotation. But we're talking about
what a reasonable deal would look like, assuming that Dayton Moore doesn't go
all "Nunez-for-Jacobs" on us again.
在看到巨人队WS豪华的先发阵容,游骑兵队考虑争取Greinke。作者写出比较"reasonable"
的交易~~
The Royals GM has made it pretty clear that the asking price on Greinke is
going to be high. ESPN reported that the Royals wanted multiple front-line
young players, including a pitcher with Greinke-like upside, while Moore told
the Kansas City Star that the right-hander won't be dealt unless the team is
blown away. So the Rangers aren't going to get this guy by giving up one
really good prospect and a couple of throw-ins, Kansas City is expecting a
pretty good return for their ace.
Royals GM很明显索价很高(ex:
FRANCOEUR等级!!)~~
皇家队想要两位以上顶级年轻选手,包括一个有Greinke-ceiling选手~~
But what exactly would an offer look like? Presumably it would start with
19-year-old lefty Martin Perez, the team's top pitching prospect and one of
the few pitchers in the league that has legitimate ace-upside. He's pretty
much exactly the kind of high-upside young pitcher that the ESPN report
alluded to, and he would give the Royals another young lefty with big-time
potential to go along with Mike Montgomery, Danny Duffy, John Lamb and Chris
Dwyer.
可能的交易会以Martin Perez开始,拥有王牌投手潜质的游骑兵队顶级新秀~~
The Royals will presumably want another impact-quality prospect on top of
that, which means either reaching for the sky and asking for shortstop
Jurickson Profar, who was recently ranked as the team's top prospect by John
Sickels, or going for a somewhat lesser name like pitchers Robbie Erlin (No.
3 on John's Top 20) and Tanner Scheppers (No. 4), third baseman Mike Olt (No.
5) or outfielder Engel Beltre (No. 6). Beltre's upside is undeniable and his
athleticism would definitely appeal to the Royals, while Erlin, Scheppers and
Olt have more limited potential but seem more likely to cash in on their
talent. Another possibility would be offering up a pitcher from the MLB team,
with lefty Derek Holland presumably being of particular interest to the
Royals.
皇家可能也想要Profar,或是投手Erlin,Scheppers,三垒手Olt,外野手Beltre其中几
人。Beltre有更好的潜力和运动能力来吸引皇家队,而其他三人的潜力相较下来较有限。
另外一个可能性是包括左投Derek Holland...(编按:Holland是非卖品,不过皇家队加码
送出Soria可以考虑喔~~啾咪>_*)
But that's really only the beginning of the package. If they're willing to
give up two of Perez, Profar and Holland, finding the additional pieces to
shore up a deal wouldn't seem to be that difficult. But if the Rangers are
only willing to offer, say, Perez, Beltre, right-hander Michael Kirkman and
shortstop Luis Sardinas, then I'm not sure that Moore and company would
classify that offer as blowing them away. There's a ton of risk in that kind
of offer, and you have to wonder if Moore would be willing to take a deal
that doesn't ensure him some sort of MLB return.
可能的交易是Perez,Profar和Holland其中二人,再加上其他配菜~~
但是如果游骑兵队只肯出Perez,Beltre,right-hander(编按:是左投啦!!)Michael Kirkman
和年轻的游击手Luis Sardinas,我不确定Moore(皇家队GM)和他的智囊团会答应。
(关键字搜寻:FRANCOEUR<->Greinke)
Here's one possible suggestion from me, though: Perez, Beltre, Sardinas,
Robbie Ross and Tommy Hunter for Greinke. The Rangers get Greinke without
giving up Holland or Profar, which is basically a win for them. The Royals
don't get either of those guys, but they get some undeniable upside along
with a young starter that can immediately replace Greinke in the rotation.
Perez is the high-upside arm they reportedly are seeking, Beltre could be an
elite prospect with some adjustments (and he's made them in the past),
Sardinas is only 17 but has huge potential, Ross is a good arm that made some
nice adjustments in the California League even though his ERA would say
otherwise, and Hunter may simply be a back-of-the-rotation arm but the Royals
are going to need a couple of those guys to eat up innings until their stable
of young pitchers is ready for the majors. What are your thoughts on this
offer? Too much going to Kansas City for two years of a well-paid starter?
Texas not giving up enough for one of the few truly elite pitchers in the
game? I'd love to see what some others think about this.
另外一种可能是Perez,Beltre,Sardinas,Robbie Ross和Tommy Hunter。游骑兵队得到
Greinke而没有丢掉Holland或是Profar~~
Perez拥有high-upside的手臂,Ross有不错的手臂但是皇家队可能需要一些可以吃局数的
年轻投手~~
Hunter会是很好的後段轮值而且是会是吃局数的工作马,颇适合皇家队~~
游骑兵队会不会为了两年左右的高价投手而放弃那麽多顶级投手呢??
我很乐意看到其他人如何去想这笔交易的可能性~
新闻来源:
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2010/11/16/1815986/the-rangers-and-greinke-
plus-thoughts-on-maybin-and-miller
心得:Holland,Perez,Holland可以不要动吗?
Scheppers+Ross+Hunter/Murphy+PTBNL<->Greinke
有可能吗??
Hunter其实很不错喔~~今年防御率才3点多,胜率又高~~
前几天签下Loux可以弥补交易後贫脊的农场(不知大大们对Loux评价可以排到第几~~)
--
2010 Texas Rangers Postseason Franchise Roster
(SP)Cliff Lee (C)Benjie Molina (1B)Mitch Moreland (2B)Ian Kinsler
(SS)Elvis Andrus (3B)Michael Young (LF)David Murphy (CF)Josh Hamilton
(RF)Nelson Cruz (DH)Vladimir Guerrero (SP)C.J. Wilson (SP)Colby Lewis
(CL)Neftali Feliz (RP)Darren O'Day (RP)Darren Oliver (SP)Derek Holland
(RP)Alexi Ogando (RP)Michael Kirkman (C)Matt Treanor (OF)Julio Borbon
--
※ 发信站: 批踢踢实业坊(ptt.cc)
◆ From: 59.121.4.113
1F:推 kobe2757:我觉得不一定要Greinke...... 11/21 22:47
2F:推 cloudfour:Greinke今年打不好~还要这麽多~不认为有球团会上当= = 11/21 23:08
3F:推 gonzalez0528:不动到Perez是不可能的 交易Grienke的代价本来就超高 11/21 23:11
4F:→ gonzalez0528:该死 拼错 Greinke 11/21 23:12
5F:→ gonzalez0528:不拿出2只以上顶级新秀 不好意思 下一位 11/21 23:13
6F:→ gonzalez0528:真的没有必要为了他把农场掏空大半 11/21 23:13
7F:推 MartinPerez:我超有潜力 11/21 23:20
8F:→ mayfirst:今年Greinke真的打很烂,等季中Moore自动降价吧 11/21 23:27
9F:推 yrt3168:Greinke是不错 但要出两只以上 不如自用阿... 11/22 02:08
10F:推 alphameric:不太喜欢葛兰基...也别想动Hollande跟Perez :-/ 11/22 08:17
11F:推 ColbyRasmus:我倒觉得如果Greinke肯签下一张合约,两只顶级新秀是 11/22 10:24
12F:→ ColbyRasmus:可以放看看的(不考虑农场深度的话) 11/22 10:24