作者stkissstone (浅涧远秋)
看板PathofExile
标题Re: [闲聊] Archnemesis改动方向
时间Thu Nov 17 11:05:23 2022
※ 引述《Justin890820 (xd)》之铭言:
: 来源:https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3322245
: 看来光头还是会怕玩家流失 直接把AN词缀移除了
: 我就问这种智障设定 当初怎麽觉得会对玩家有吸引力
不太对
所以我来当劳工惹
The issues that players often had with Archnemesis were:
The keyworded mod names were not fully descriptive of what they did
The mods often had multiple effects bundled which made them harder to
understand
Due to how many effects were included in a single mod, it made too many
encounters too complex
The way Archnemesis rewards were set up meant that many players felt like
they couldn't just kill a monster, they had to consider if they wanted to
bring a magic find character in to maximise rewards
现在宿敌词的问题为
1,词坠没有办法描述他们的效果
2,这些词坠通常有复数能力且让人难以理解
3,因为单一词坠有太多能力所以让面对这些战斗太复杂
4,掉落大礼包的设定让玩家没办法单纯把怪干掉,玩家必须找打宝师才能得到理想的收益
The goals of the new system are:
Mods do one specific thing
Mods say what they do rather than having a thematic name you must learn
and remember
Encounters are simplified on average while retaining interesting fights
Players are no longer required to do annoying actions to maximise rewards
改动後的目标为
1,词坠单纯化
2,词坠的名称从主题式的名称变成更直接的描述
3,战斗会更单纯
4,玩家不用特别做麻烦的事情才能维持收益
Mods do one specific thing
Here's an example: The Magma Barrier Archnemesis mod did a whole lot of
stuff. It started by putting a magma barrier around the monster, but it
didn't stop there. It converted some of the monster's physical damage to fire
damage, it added some extra fire damage on top, it granted fire resistance to
the monster and it gave some physical damage reduction for good measure. It
also spawned volatile flamebloods to follow you. The new equivalent modifier
just puts a magma barrier around the monster and does nothing else.
词坠单纯化
打个比方:熔岩屏障(应该是这个名字)原本有一大堆能力,他会给怪物开个盾,并且会把
怪物一部分的物理伤害转成火伤,然後给怪物一些额外火伤,额外物减跟火抗,最後还会
生成追杀你的火球. 新的词坠只会保留放盾的部分
Mods say what they do rather than having a thematic name you must learn and
remember
For example, rather than "Incendiary", which broke down into six properties,
you'd now see monsters with either "Ignites" or "Fire and Ignite Resistant".
Instead of "Deadeye", which did five separate things, you'd now see "Applies
Random Mark", "Extra Crits" or "Accurate" as separate unrelated mods.
词坠的名称从主题式的名称变成更直接的描述
打个比方,"纵火"这个词(应该是?这个不太确定中文是哪个),会被拆成6个部分,你会更直
接看到怪物头上写着"点燃"跟"火焰与点燃抗性"."锐眼",原本有五个功能的词,你现在会
看到"造成随机印记","额外爆击" 或 "更多命中"为分开的词坠.
Encounters are simplified on average while retaining interesting fights
The pool of mods that involve complex interaction (like spawning volatiles or
ground effects on death) have been heavily diluted by the presence of the
simpler mods. This means that you encounter more complex fights less
frequently. But interesting and challenging emergent behaviour from
overlapping mods can still happen, just less often.
战斗会更单纯
那些包含复杂互动的词坠(像是死亡生成追杀火球或超痛地板)已经被简化词坠这动作给
大量稀释.这代表你会更少碰到这些超麻烦的战斗.但大量堆叠词坠後还是有机率跑出来
,就比较少.
Players are no longer required to do annoying actions to maximise rewards
In Archnemesis, rewards were associated with individual mods. This meant that
you could tell what kind of rewards you would get in advance. In some cases,
you were then effectively required to fetch a magic-find culling character to
make sure that you maximised the value of the monster mod that you had found.
In other cases, you would ignore a monster completely if you knew that it
would only drop rewards that were of no value to you. In the new system, we
have added a significant pool of new rewards to rares, but the reward that is
on the monster is hidden (and not associated with a specific mod), so you
don't know what kind of rewards you will get until you kill the monster. Rare
monsters with more mods are more likely to have these special hidden reward
mods. This new reward system smooths out the spikiness that the Archnemesis
reward system had.
玩家不用特别做麻烦的事情才能维持收益
在宿敌联盟时,奖励是跟词坠绑在一起的,这代表你可以得知你接下来能得到甚麽,在这
个情况下,你必须要找一个扑杀打宝师才能有效率的确保自己的收益,在其他情况下你会
完全忽略一只怪因为他啥毛都不会掉,在新系统我们增加了更多的奖励类型,但奖励会被
隐藏(且不跟特定词坠绑在一起),所以你要干掉怪物才知道会掉啥,有越多词坠的怪会有
更高的机率带有更好的掉落. 这系统让宿敌词的掉落曲线更平滑.
Conclusion
The original motivation for developing Archnemesis was that the previous
monster mod system was very out of date. Many of the mods didn't have any
appreciable effect under modern balance and there wasn't a lot of interesting
gameplay possible. In our opinion, Archnemesis did succeed at adding a lot of
interesting new mechanics to rares, but introduced the problems described
above. While creating the new monster mods described in this article, we were
careful to retain most of the interesting mechanics that Archnemesis
introduced, but in a way that doesn't include a grab-bag of other effects and
is diluted by many other simpler mods.
The result is a system that is very similar to what monster mods used to be
like, but with much more up-to-date content and balance. Mods are simpler and
say exactly what they do. While you can certainly still rarely encounter
scary combinations of mods that really wake you up, it's a lot rarer than it
was under the Archnemesis system. We feel that the new system is more modern
and interesting than the old monster mod/nemesis system and is clearer and
easier to understand in the heat of combat than Archnemesis was.
总结
原本的制作宿敌词的原因是旧的黄怪词系统是非常过时的,大部分的词坠都没有好好的平
衡而且根本不好玩,以我们的角度来看,宿敌词的确有效的新增了一些战斗机制,但也产生
了一大堆上述的问题,所以在词坠修正时,我们保留了战斗机制,但不再是怪物强化超级大
礼包而是更单纯的词坠.
这结果会让怪物词坠的运作更像以前的运作模式,但有更多内容和平衡,词坠会更单纯而且
描述更加直接.这代表你还是有很低的机率碰到大量堆叠的强力黄怪.我们觉得新系统比旧
宿敌系统更有趣且更容易理解战斗到底在干嘛.
跟我上一篇说的差不多
强度被砍下去 掉落也让你不用管打宝师 一切都欧拉欧拉过去就好
怪变好杀 承认自己平衡没搞好
算是好的开始吧
可以给点关注接下来的详细内容
题外话
看到点燃抗性才想到
元素使的必定点燃可不可以改成1000%之类的阿 超容易被词坠抗掉的耶
--
https://www.twitch.tv/stkissstone
当然,我可以试试
--
※ 发信站: 批踢踢实业坊(ptt.cc), 来自: 218.166.62.44 (台湾)
※ 文章网址: https://webptt.com/cn.aspx?n=bbs/PathofExile/M.1668654325.A.EFE.html
※ 编辑: stkissstone (218.166.62.44 台湾), 11/17/2022 11:07:05
1F:推 chy19890517: 翻译推 11/17 11:12
2F:推 steven70101: 哥布林隐身,打宝师变回以前努力尾刀所有怪模式 11/17 11:13
3F:推 cty78221: 感谢翻译 11/17 11:14
4F:→ steven70101: 多功能宿敌词全都拆多条,好降低讨人厌组合机率 11/17 11:14
5F:→ sobiNOva: 结果每个词的讨厌部分组合起来XDD 11/17 11:18
6F:→ sobiNOva: 骰子要爆 11/17 11:18
7F:推 steven70101: 就算遇到熔岩屏障+冰牢+毒素+风行者,那只怪至少不会 11/17 11:18
8F:→ stkissstone: 那也是从讨厌部分+一堆额外强化 变成讨厌部分 11/17 11:19
9F:→ stkissstone: 还是可以整死人 但比这一季好 11/17 11:19
10F:→ steven70101: 还有+50抗性跟额外xx伤害了 11/17 11:19
11F:推 kiolasd: 这样改还不错吧 剩下看砍宝箱怪掉落率会不会还回来 11/17 11:26
12F:→ stkissstone: 宝箱怪还在 只是没法看出来 只能全杀 11/17 11:27
13F:→ apol1033: 把宿敌的词缀拆散,但是再提升强度? 11/17 11:40
14F:→ stkissstone: 没有提升强度阿 就拆开 11/17 11:41
15F:→ apol1033: 但是他好像只提到简化词缀,没提到强度,感觉不好说 11/17 11:43
16F:推 amsmsk: 推翻译 按照GGG北蓝个性 说不定大幅强化单一词 11/17 11:44
17F:推 p200404: 酋长:bitch 100%还嫌弃 看看我多少%好吗 11/17 11:49
18F:→ stkissstone: 酋长.....是谁? 11/17 11:57
19F:推 zxcchiou: 推 这改动非常好! 之前有叠加词坠 很难打 11/17 11:59
20F:→ zxcchiou: 终於 链魔算加强? 11/17 12:00
21F:→ stkissstone: 练魔扣掉词坠还有其他问题就是了 11/17 12:01
22F:推 innocence269: 觉得不好玩,所以看到玩家一直死他们觉得很好玩吗 11/17 12:29
23F:→ innocence269: 还会玩玩看,体验糟糕只能跑 感谢翻译 11/17 12:31
24F:→ iamgaylan: 这样游戏变得很不cooool 怎麽办 11/17 12:55
25F:推 Silwez: 不好玩改成好玩,然後玩家跑更多ㄏㄏ 11/17 12:59
26F:推 sniper2824: 没关系 反正我已经移除了 11/17 13:33
27F:推 funkD: 宿敌真的好好玩窝 11/17 13:48
28F:推 doom3: 要弄出以前难度是不是会出个地图天赋 稀有怪词缀无上限 11/17 14:14
29F:推 thbygn98: 这游戏必定点燃、必定感电都不是字面想的那样zzz 11/17 14:17
30F:推 qd6590: 不是有个什麽自虐模式 想难的去自虐阿 客群分开很好 11/17 14:35
31F:推 POCARI5566: 干你娘还我自咒啦干 11/17 15:01
32F:→ stkissstone: 希望他们真的想通了把自虐跟一般分开 11/17 15:50
33F:推 davidliudmc: 反正掉宝不改回来我看游戏是没救了 不怎麽看好 11/17 16:19
34F:推 sobiNOva: 掉宝就改回来了阿= = 11/17 16:29
35F:推 ilohoo: 那这个奖励系统不就跟“黄怪有更多稀有度”差不多 11/17 16:34
36F:推 fff417: 哪里说改回来了 有说旧联盟机制怪的IIQ IIR会改回来吗 11/17 16:46
37F:推 key1000: 推 11/17 16:49
38F:推 SuperKoala: 玩家持续流失 游戏就会变好玩了 这季我先不玩 11/17 17:13
39F:→ ali100: 没关系我等3.20上伺服器再来骂 11/17 17:17
40F:→ stkissstone: 不玩还要回来骂也太死忠了吧 11/17 17:28
41F:推 tom40819: 好的开始?nonono 11/17 17:34
42F:推 chx64: 再说吧 反正到时候肯定又偷改些什麽 11/17 18:34
43F:推 sosiealex: 宿敌太强再砍掉 但是砍掉的掉宝率也不会回来 11/17 18:37
44F:推 fantasybard: 看完还是对GGG无期待但翻译还是要给推 11/17 18:51
45F:推 sorryfly: 简单来说就是把宿敌改回以前那样阿(摊 11/17 19:14
46F:→ sorryfly: 阿掉宝敢不敢一起改回来 11/17 19:14
47F:推 Alicputster: 还有各种旧联盟怪的IRIQ呢 我看3G一定会对这个装死 11/17 19:23
48F:→ Alicputster: 根据之前的前科 肯定是有什麽最重要的地方不敢先说 11/17 19:24
49F:推 tom40819: 现在ggg有隔壁顽皮狗的味道了(笑 11/17 19:26
50F:推 killloli: 照GGG之前那种改法铁定有藏什麽恶心的没讲 11/17 19:34
51F:推 e23731208: 翻译推 11/17 19:42
52F:→ mjmj58747: 直觉告诉我,把物品转换词拆掉,其他一样打包 11/17 19:53
53F:推 yotama12005: 比19好一点点,也只是一点…. 11/17 19:57
54F:→ mjmj58747: 不用做麻烦事最大化收益,这句话听来很恐惧 11/17 19:59
55F:推 Nigger5566: 原来熔岩屏障做那麽多事情= = 11/17 20:02
56F:→ wins5158: "不用管打宝"会不会是因为砍掉落到有无打宝都差不多? 11/17 20:45
57F:→ wins5158: 然後这改动是暗着来的? 11/17 20:46
58F:推 lightKevin: 还是要有打宝 只是不能像这版本找打宝师来打最後一下 11/17 20:54
59F:→ JHGF2468A: 掉宝的部分啊不就跟之前一样 11/17 20:58
60F:→ JHGF2468A: 算了,反正掉宝没改回来我也不会想玩 11/17 21:04
61F:推 Orenjifurai: GGG顶住...千万不要趁了低端玩家的意,要坚持自己! 11/17 21:05
62F:→ stkissstone: 还是会一次喷出一大堆东西 但你不可预期是哪种 11/17 21:48
63F:→ stkissstone: 所以不用找打宝师 11/17 21:48
64F:→ stkissstone: 反正等详细PN吧 有一分数据说一分话 11/17 21:49
65F:推 qd6590: 你的意思是虽然不用找打宝师但是还是能在路上打到200个护 11/17 21:53
66F:→ qd6590: 甲片 20瓶药剂吗 谢了GGG== 11/17 21:53
67F:→ stkissstone: 至少不是打到一团空气 11/17 21:55
68F:→ lovehina9304: 经过3.19之後,pn还要担心他有没有当重点写进去 11/17 22:08
69F:推 ppon: 喜迎成堆的磨刀石 (? 11/17 22:23
70F:推 RuinAngel: Encounters are simplified on average 这点我从不怀疑 11/17 23:56
71F:→ RuinAngel: GGG 能把那个 pool 搞出各种 bug 然後怪要嘛废到笑要 11/17 23:56
72F:→ RuinAngel: 嘛照样恶爆... 11/17 23:56
73F:推 asd5377932: 观望中 11/18 01:24
74F:→ stkissstone: 就观望 两面的意见都先不用放满 11/18 02:09
75F:推 dchain: 反正, 赞助包请等开赛两季後再考虑. 请大家互相提醒 11/18 08:50
76F:推 hh123yaya: 宿敌词拆成单条效果 所以应该不会出现超级黄怪了? 11/18 10:33
77F:→ hh123yaya: 以前6词里面含宿敌词 实际上可能有10~20条词 11/18 10:34
78F:→ hh123yaya: 宝箱怪也是因为词缀堆叠才变成单一怪奖励太好 11/18 10:35
79F:→ stkissstone: 给你完美6词还是可以扁死玩家 11/18 11:56
80F:推 weisuonan: 1000%也没用 避免撑到100%就是免疫 目前的互动就是他们 11/18 18:24
81F:→ weisuonan: 两个独立判定 11/18 18:24
82F:→ c121125: 简单来说不管你机率几%,他就是一定有N%机率避免中状态 11/18 18:34
83F:→ cguchen: 等PN出来再说,这说法也还是有很多洞可以钻 11/19 21:11
84F:推 sike: 所以之後会遇到从萤幕最上面描述到最下面的怪吗 11/21 18:27
85F:推 y123tw2009: 感谢翻译 11/22 04:25
86F:推 exrana: 绑打宝师就很不健康 11/22 07:58
87F:→ good90150: lol没了,如果这版再不好玩就砍ggc了,下次回归就看哪 11/25 05:05
88F:→ good90150: 时候变好玩吧 11/25 05:05
89F:→ stkissstone: 大概可以先砍了 应该是不会有太大差别 11/26 11:52