※ 引述《PatsyGallagh (再一次...用力)》之铭言： : 看看一些国外歌迷对头子吉他的看法： : @ James Dean Bradfield (Manics)is a better guitarist than Noel Gallagher. : That's a fact, not an opinion. : I think Noel is a decent guitarist who's made some great guitar solos in the : past. : @ I think this is unfair...since : James Dean Bradfield is naturally right handed : Noel Gallagher is, at the end of the day, a left handed person who had to : learn right handed : you try and learn guitar like that...its bloody hard, even just learning it : normally, never mind with your weaker side!! : (这个歌迷说想想 Noel 是左撇子却学着用右手来弹吉他...这一点还满不简单的哩 : 对哦不知道这样“颠倒”的学习对 Noel 来说到底是怎样呢...) 其实头子两手都可以弹.... 我也看过他拿左手琴谈过...... : @ Noel is no (Jimi Hendrix, Jimmy Page )but he is more of a song writer and : rhythm guitarist than an out and out solo player. He said in Q once that : Gem and Andy are actually far better guitar players than him but I still : havent really heard anything from Gem to prove he is any better than Noel : He hasnt written a solo like "Hotel California " recently has he????? : (Noel 和大师级的吉他手当然没得比，他比较像是个[用吉他来创作]的写歌人 : 以及节奏吉他手。这个歌迷还疑问起 Gem 了，虽然说 Noel 一直说 Gem 和 Andy : 比他强很多，但是 Gem 好像还没表现出来？) : @ Techinically Noel isn't brilliant, but the way he puts such simple things : and little tricks together shows a great understanding of the Guitar and of : his own abillity, on Ability vs results, Noel is possibly the best ever, : ie Hendrix was great, but did he play within him self? : (技巧上 Noel 根本不算哪根葱，但是他能够找出自己的方式把极简单的东西和一些 : 小小的技巧融合在一起，表现出对吉他这项乐器的了解还有对自己能力的了解, : 就呈现的整体效果来说，Noel 可能是最棒的。) : @ why does the way he learned have anythin to do with it? yeah, guitar : learnin/playin is hard in itself but its not like he was FORCED into playing : the way he does. thats wrong. noel would have learnt the most comfortable way : cuz anythin else is just stupid...unless he was copyin lennon which wouldnt : surprise me. : as for his ability its pretty standard. not good, not bad. hes good at making : simple stuff sound effective. take for example the "3 note solo" on scyho. : effective but rediculously easy. : oh yeah, by the way, i thought paul weller played lead guitar on champagne : supernova. i like the way someone credited on of THE BEST guitar parts : oasis have to noel when it was someone else! thats funny. i dunno i could : be wrong. : (这位歌迷首先质疑其实左撇子学吉他应该也是“自然”的选择正常的吉他把位 : Noel 应该不会强迫自己用不舒服的姿势学琴，除非他刻意和 Lennon 一样 : [原来 Lennon 也是左撇子学吉他哦！？] : 另外他认为头子吉他还过得去，不特好也不特坏，不过倒真是会用简单的东西 : 达到效果，他举例像 SCYHO 的“三音符 solo”虽然和整首歌满搭调的 : 但是也简单的太夸张了吧 : 最後他疑问 Champagne Supernova 的 solo 到底是不是 Paul Weller 弹的 : 因为他常听歌迷赞美这首歌的 solo，似乎是美丽的误会？) 没错....应该说在最长的那一段solo的部分.... 到了约4分46秒的那一个部分.... 就变成Paul Weller 弹的..... 虽然MTV中是头子弹的... 不过....那个solo一个人也可以弹得出来啦.....嗯嗯... : @ not a great guitarist and hes never made out to be one, been playing guitar : for a year and a half now and i can do most of his solo's so they cant be : that hard although the live forever solo is one of the best guitar solo's : ever in my book : (这位歌迷说他自己学吉他才一年半就会弹大部分 Oasis 的 solo : 所以就高难度来讲，Noel 从来不是个棒的吉他手。 : 不过他倒是说 Live Forever 的 solo 是他自己觉得最棒的之一) 这一首歌.....也有进入英国某杂志票选的百大solo歌曲之列.... 是oasis歌曲里面在该排行中最高的歌曲.... : @ What about the jam at the end of "gas panic" all Noel is doing is using his : "FLANGER" pedal and his reverb & feedback to make his favoured sound : ( In "Roll it over" and "Little by little" he uses a very similar sound. : But it isnt hard to do in anyway at all (Sounds good though!!) : I think even Noel would admit when it comes to lead guitar playing he is : not even in the same league as his idols (Dave gilmour, Jimmy page etc) : (这位歌迷说明 Noel 很爱某种特定的效果，在数首歌中都有用到 : 但其实那是一种做起来还满简单的效果，只不过听起来不错！ : 还有他认为即使 Noel 也不会把自己放到和那些偶像吉他手一样的高度吧) : @ i don't think i'd be surprised. noel's not a great guitarist. he's very good : in several areas, his touch is fantastic, he has an excellent vibrato, and : excellent pitch. that's why he pulls off those unison bends so well that : you rarely hear from other guitarists. And yes, paul weller only handles : lead on the second four bars of the supernova solo. listen for the tone, : his is very distinctive. : please don't mention the jam on gas panic as great guitar. someone really : needs to hear a little stevie ray i'm afraid. sliding a bottleneck up and : down the neck randomly and hitting random strings is hardly great guitar. : (哦这位歌迷提到 Noel 当然不是个伟大的吉他手，但是在几个领域他弹得还满好的 : 不过有些是吉他的术语，我就不十分清楚该怎麽翻译了... : touch =? 指他弹琴的力道.....事实上吉他弹奏的时候.... 双手的力道也会影响音色..... : vibrato =? 指颤音....最简单最明显的可以去看T&T现场.... 在进入acquiesce之前的几秒钟.... 可以看到头子的左手按着弦在抖..... 修饰的几本技巧.... : pitch =? : munison bends =? ^^^^^^^^ 应该是unison...^^ 上面这两个我也不太懂....不过大概是赞同头子的编曲能力吧.... : 另外他还说要听真正好的 jam 要去听 Stevie Ray 的;) : @ Hm, I don't get it. How did you come up with James B? Are you Manics fan? : Second, just cuz somebody knows all Noel's playing doesn't make him a bad : player. My brother can do all of Oasis, 90% of Manics, all of the Beatles : without looking at the notes, just by listening. It says nothing about the : musicians. The Beatles have tons of 2 chord songs but they are still one of : the best bands and their songs are tops. I don't like these kinds of : discussions. I want this deleted...LOL : Anyways, James B respects Noel greatly and...Yea! When he was asked about : the best gig he was ever @, he said the Main Road : (呵这位歌迷首先不了为什麽「狂街传教士」的吉他手会被扯进来？ : 再来他觉得有人会弹 Noel 全部的 solo 也不代表他就是个烂的吉他手吧 : 他举例他兄弟会弹 Oasis 的全部、Manics 的百分之九十，披头的全部 : 都没看谱完全用听的抓，可是这又能帮以上三个团的乐手证明什麽？ : 披头有一堆只有两个和弦的歌但他们仍然是伟大的乐团，他们的歌还是超棒的啊;) : @ According to Noel the reason they wont be playing (Probably) All in the Mind : Live is because neither Gem or Noel could reproduce the solo that : Johnny Marr done. : (这不知是真是假，这位歌迷说他听 Noel 说过 Oasis 现场之所以不表演 : Probably All in the Mind 这首歌是因为不管是 Gem 或 Andy 没办法 : 再现 Johnny Marr 於专辑中跨刀弹的 solo？？？) : @ Several important things: : The melodic or musical value of a solo has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with : the technical ability and skill required to play it. : Unison bends are not difficult to play AT ALL. : Noel has never done anything I would consider even remotely challenging. : This is not to imply that he is a bad guitarist, but simply that he is not : great. This has nothing to do with how he is as a writer and a musician, : but is rather an unbiased analysis based on observation. : (我觉得他绿字部分说得满好的： : 「solo [在歌曲里的]的旋律性或音乐性价值和弹奏所需的技巧和能力一点关系也没有。」 : 他觉得 Noel 基本上没做过什麽有“挑战性”的吉他功夫， : 这并不代表他是个不好的吉他手，只不过不是棒的吉他手罢了。) : @ to whoever asked if hendrix playd within himself... : of corse he did he plays with more emotion than anyone. : noel aint a great player if u want great tecnical players then listen to : yngwie malmsteen.steve vai.joe satriani etc.. but id rather listen to noel : anyday cos they bore fuk outa me : (;)) : @ fool on the hill you are completely right all these guitarist like satriani, : and malmsteen get shoved in my face constantly, and i'm like who cares. : They may play very complex guitar parts, but they can't write songs, : they're just boring as fuck. Thats why I like page and kirk hammett, they : incorporate their guitar playing into their songs. Its also the reason i : like noel, hes a songwriter first and foremost, hes not a shredder. : Noel Gallagher is a very good guitarist hes doing a damn sight better : than all the guitarists that are slating him on this board... : i'd call it jealousy : (这位歌迷觉得他比较佩服能把吉他活用到歌曲创作的人， : 光是复杂的吉他技巧会让他感到无聊...) : Cheers! : Patsy "Gallagher" 附带再说一点.... 我个人觉得....音乐就是音乐..... 技巧并不代表音乐..... 就像是Joe Satriani(前几篇我称之为佛的人...) 她的吉他技巧真的是出神入化... 但是...他却公开表示他觉得John Lennon的solo很恐怖..... 他写不出那种solo...... oasis终究会被一些听技巧派的人归类於没有技巧的团.... 不过...爱当井底之蛙....就去当吧.... 没有看清音乐的本质..... 和一个会谈吉他的机器人....没什麽两样.... 只是差别在人弹有时会出错而已.....嗯... -- ...........网路是虚幻的...摇滚是真实的.............. --

※ 发信站: 批踢踢实业坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From: 61.217.229.55 ※ 编辑: crazymorning 来自: 61.217.229.55 (09/07 17:30)