※ 引述《sillydream (大块)》之铭言： ※ 引述《peking (=.=)》之铭言： ※ 引述《JilSander (Doer brokenheart)》之铭言： ※ [本文转录自 CMWang 看板] 作者: wesun (统一狮王重返荣耀^^) 站内: CMWang 标题: [外电] Twenty-three guys better than Wang? No chance 时间: Tue Apr 8 13:12:52 2008 网路上看到到的...不知道有没有PO过 我不会缩网址 sorry= =" http://www.bugsandcranks.com/new-york-yankees/twenty-three-guys-better-than-wang-no-chance/ My post about whether or not Chien-Ming Wang is an ace seems to have stirred up the passions on both sides. 关於我写的文章探讨小王究竟是不是Ace似乎引起了很大的讨论, 无论这些讨论是赞成或者是反对 ‘Chad’ goes so far as to take up my challenge to name 10 better starters — with stats — by dropping 23 names with ERA as his sole piece of evidence. Let’s be serious here and take Chad’s entire list, from my perspective, and I’ll tell you which pitcher I think is better right now. 查德(我猜是有人针对他前一篇评论Wang的文章作的回应)举了23个他认为比小王好的 先发投手,并且付上ERA以资证明.现在让我们认真面对查德先生的这份名单,我将会阐述 我的观点并且告诉你,我认为那些投手目前确实是比小王好. Here is the list. 这里是查德的名单 1. Jake Peavy 杰克 皮维,教士队 2. Johan Santana 犹汉 山塔纳,大都会队 3. Josh Beckett 贾许 贝克特,红袜队 4. CC Sabathia 西西 萨巴西亚,印地安人队 5. Erik Bedard 艾瑞克 贝达德,水手队 6. Brandon Webb 布兰登 韦伯,响尾蛇队 7. John Smoltz 约翰 史摩兹,勇士队 8. Dan Haren 丹 海伦,响尾蛇队 9. Chris Young 克力士 杨,教士队 10. Cole Hamels 寇 海默斯,费城人队 11. John Lackey 约翰 雷奇,天使队 12. Gil Meche 吉儿 梅许,皇家队 13. Justin Verlander贾思汀 瓦兰德,老虎队 14. Matt Cain 麦特 该隐,巨人队 15. Mark Buerhle 马克 柏里,白袜队 16. Oliver Perez 欧力佛 培瑞兹,大都会队 17. Scott Kazmir 史考特 凯兹摩,光芒队 18. Kelvim Escobar 凯尔文 爱思科巴,天使队 19. Tim Hudson 提姆 哈森,勇士队 20. Chad Billingsley查德 毕林思利,道奇队 21. Roy Oswalt 洛伊 奥士华,太空人队 22. Fausto Carmona 法士多 卡默纳,老虎队 23. Brad Penny 布瑞德 潘尼,道奇队 Now let’s go one-by-one and break it down, looking at their numbers from 2006 and 2007. Those are, in fairness to Wang, his only full major league seasons. 我们现在让小王和这些投手比较一下2006及2007球季的数据, 这两季是小王的完整球季,这样比较会比较公平. 1. Jake Peavy vs. Wang — 19-6 with a terrific 2.54 ERA last season. But, 11-14 with a worse than league average 4.09 ERA in 2006. Oh, and in two post-season starts, an 0-2 record with a 12.10 ERA. Wang in those two years is 38-13, having lost fewer games in two seasons that Peavy did in one. Advantage: Wang 皮维在07球季有着恐怖的2.54自责分率以及19胜6败的成绩,但是06球季 却是11胜14败高於联盟平均的4.09自责分率,季後赛0胜2败与高达12.10的自责分率. 而小王这两季则是38胜13败,两季加起来输的场数比皮维06年输的还少 小王占上风 2. Johan Santana — The Mets’ prized acquisition is clearly the best left-handed starter in the game (sorry, CC Sabathia). He has won 34 games in the past two seasons, and at least 15 in each of his four years as a starter. I’m not going to argue here, because Santan’s presence would make Wang a No. 2. One thing I will say, though, is a check of Santana’s post-season record reveals only a 1-4 career mark with a 3.97 ERA. So, regular season greatness does not always translate to post-season success. Advantage: Santana 大都会队的山塔纳无疑是当今最好的左投手(萨巴西亚抱歉罗). 这两季共赢得34胜,而且作为一个先发投手,山塔纳过去四年每季至少都有15胜. 毫无疑问的,在山塔那优异表现的面前,小王只能是个二号投手. 但我必须要说一句,季赛的好表现并不一定会带来季後赛的成功. 你看看山塔纳的季後赛表现也不过是1胜4败,3.97的自责分率. 山塔纳占上风 3. Josh Beckett — The only question there has ever been with Beckett has been health. He has answered that the last two seasons, pitching 200 or more innings each season. Beckett won 20 last year, but remember that he did post a 5.01 ERA in 2006. Still, his post-season work — 6-0 in 10 starts with a miniscule 1.73 ERA — separates him. Advantage: Beckett 过去贝克特唯一的问题是他的健康.过去两季贝克特以每年至少200局的贡献告诉大家 "我是健康宝宝"去年贝克特赢了20场,但请别忘记他06年5.01糟糕的自责分率.另外 他每到季後赛就好像变成超人一样,总共十次先发就赢了六场,而且自责分率是很变态的 1.73. 贝克特占上风 4. CC Sabathia — 19-7 last season with a 3.21 ERA while winning the Cy Young Award, but only 7 games over .500 in the three seasons prior to that. Oh, and what did CC do in the playoffs last season? A 5.40 ERA against the Yankees and 10.45 in two starts against Boston. Again, regular season success means nothing in the post-season. Sabathia pitched 241 innings last season, the first time since 2002 he topped the 200 mark. I need to see him do it again. Advantage: None 萨巴西亚去年以19胜7败3.21的自责分率赢得了赛扬奖(後半句看不懂) 但是季後赛呢?对洋基的自责分率高达5.40,对红袜的自责分率更是惨不忍睹的10.45. 再一次的,我们印证了"季赛的好表现并不一定会带来季後赛的成功". 去年萨巴西亚一共投了241局,但这是他唯一投超过200局的一季,他必须持续证明他能够 吃下这麽多的局数. 平手 5. Erik Bedard — Bedard is a nice pitcher, and I give him tons of credit for going 28-16 over two seasons with the bumbling Orioles. His 3.16 ERA pitching largely in that bandbox in Baltimore — almost 1.5 runs below league average — is impressive. But, Bedard has never pitched 200 innings in a season and you can’t be an ace if you haven’t proven you can carry the workload — which he hasn’t. Also, despite his nice numbers can you name a meaningful game the guy has ever pitched in. Let’s see what he does this season with Seattle before we even consider Bedard for ‘ace’ status. Advantage: Wang 贝达德是个好投手,我可以为他背书,因为他居然能在三不五时就要大爆炸的金莺队里 取得过去两季28胜16败的成绩.在大爆炸的金莺队里,他的自责分率是3.16,甚至远远地 低於联盟平均达1.5分,这十分令人印象深刻.但是贝达德从来没有在一季投超过200局, 如果他无法证明他能够吃下这麽多局数,那麽他也无法成为真正的Ace. 而且在他这麽亮眼的数据中,你却无法说出他有任何一场令人印象深刻的比赛. 再称呼他为Ace之前,我想,我们先看看他在西雅图的表现再说吧. 小王占上风 6. Brandon Webb — The reigning NL Cy Young Award winner is a sinkerballer and maybe the most similar guy to Wang on this entire list. Webb has won 34 games the past two seasons and has pitched at least 229 innings each of the past three seasons. He strikes out more hitters than Wang and gives up fewer hits, but I would like to see how he would fare against American League lineups. For now, though, I’d give him a slight edge. Advantage: Webb 韦伯是现任的国家联盟赛扬奖得主,同时他也是这份名单中最性质最接近小王的人 ----伸卡球.韦伯过去两季赢了34场,而且过去三年每年至少投229局.他比小王三振了更多 的人,被打出更少的安打,可是,我很想看看如果是在美国联盟的话,他还能有这样的表现吗? 但是就现在而言,我认为他还是赢了小王一丁点. 韦伯胜出! 7. John Smoltz –The Braves’ righty has been a great pitcher for a long time, there is no arguing that. He has won 30 games combined and pitched more than 200 innings in each of the past two seasons. He has been a terrific post-season pitcher as well, going 12-12 with a 2.65 ERA and four saves in 40 appearances. If I was choosing someone to build around I would take Wang. If I need someone to start one game, there is probably no one else I would rather give the ball to than Smoltz, who will soon be 41. Advantage: Smoltz 这位勇士队的右投手长久以来毫无疑问的都有好的表现.过去两季共赢得30场胜投而且 每季都至少投200局以上,季後赛的表现更是棒得没话说,在他40次的出赛中,一共是 12胜12败4救援2.65的自责分率.如果要选球员来组成球队,我会选王,但是如果只是 选一个人来先发一场,没有人可以取代史摩兹让我将手中的球交给他,虽然他即将要41岁了 史摩兹胜出! 8. Dan Haren — When was this guy ever the ace of any staff he has been on? He’s certainly not the ace this year in Arizona, so I’m not sure he should even be in this conversation. His 15-9 record last season was the most games he has ever won, and the first time in his career he has finished more than two games above .500. He’s a good pitcher and an innings-eater, having pitched at least 217 innings in each of his three full seasons, but that’s all. Advantage: Wang 什麽时候海伦兄拥有过Ace般的身手了?我很确定他不会是响尾蛇队的Ace,我甚至不确定 我该不该花时间在这里讨论他.去年他拿下15胜9败的成绩是他生涯最好的一次(我还是看 不懂後面那句).他是个好投手也是个可以吃下很多局数的投手,过去三个完整球季里他每 季都至少能吃下217局,但就只有这样而已. 小王轻松获胜! (好累~有没有人要接手) 9. Chris Young — Laughable that he is on this list. Won 9 games last year and has never won more than 12 in his career. Nice 3.12 ERA, but no better than a two or three on any staff, anywhere. On the Yankees he would be third behind Wang and Andy Pettitte, and maybe fourth behind Phil Hughes. Advantage: Wang 很可笑的 Chris Young居然在他所列出比王好的投手清单上:去年只赢了九场比赛,生涯 中单季最多12胜.很棒的自责失分率,但还是不比其他球队的二号或三号先发好.在洋基的 话,他只会是一个在小王和派帅之後的三号先发,或是Hughes之後的四号先发. 胜出:小王!! 10. Cole Hamels — Hamels is headed for a terrific career. Yet, he has had one full big-league season and has yet to pitch 200 innings. Is he even the Phillies ace, or would that title go to Brett Myers who is back in the rotation after spending last year in the bullpen? Advantage: Wang Hamels正迈向一个了不起的生涯.但是他还不曾有过一个完整的大联盟球季,也不曾投超过 两百局以上.费城人队的Ace头衔会是他的?或是属於去年待在牛棚,今年才回到轮值表的 Brett Myers? 胜出:小王!!! 11. John Lackey — Dominant last season (19-9, 3.01 ERA), but more like Pettitte than a true No. 1. He’s been good for a while, but had never won more than 14 games prior to last season. I need to see him do it again before I call him a true ace. Advantage: Wang 去年是他主宰的一季(19-9,ERA 3.01)但比起一个真正的NO.1,他还比较属於派帅的类型. 他的表现的确好过一阵子,但是他在去年之前单季从来不曾赢超过14场,在我称呼他为ACE 之前,我必须再看他主宰一遍. 胜出:小王!!! 12. Gil Meche — Like Chris Young, I find it incomprehensible that anyone can think Meche is a better pitcher than Wang. Won 15 games in 2003, but hasn’t won more than 11 since. Went 9-13 last year. I know he hasn’t pitched for good teams, but this is a guy with a 4.47 ERA in 8 seasons. He might be the best starter the Royals have, but you can hardly call him an ace. Advantage: Wang 就像CHRIS YOUNG一样,我实在很难理解有人认为Meche是一个比王还好的投手,2003赢了 15场但在那之後从没赢超过11场,去年9胜13败.我知道他还未替一个好球队效力过,但是 在生涯八季超过4.47的自责失分率,他或许是皇家队拥有的最好投手,但是你真的很难 称他为一个ace 胜出:小王!!! 13. Justin Verlander — This guy is a young Smoltz, a flamethrower who can be absolutely dominant when he is right. He went 35-15 the past two seasons, and at 25 is still growing into what will likely be a great career. Topped 200 innings for the first time last season (201). He has not been successful in the post-season yet, starting four games and pitching to a 5.82 ERA. Right now, he and Wang are probably equal. Verlander, though, is still getting better. Advantage: Verlander Justin Verlander-这家伙是个年轻的Smoltz，一个火炎球投手，当他进入状况时候能够 绝对主宰整个球赛，前两季他的成绩是35胜15负，而25岁的今年依旧是很有可能会是投出 好成绩的一年。去年第一次投球局数达到两百局(201局)。他同样在季後赛也没有好成绩 四场先发，防御率为5.82。现在，他跟小王可能是平手，但是Verlander仍然会变得更好 Verlander胜 14. Matt Cain — Are you freakin’ kidding me? A guy who went 7-16 last season and has a 22-29 career record? Ridiculous! Advantage: Wang Matt Cain--你真的是在开我玩笑吗？这家伙上球季7胜16败，然後生涯成绩22胜29败？ 荒谬！小王胜 15. Mark Buerhle – A couple of years ago this might have been an argument. In 2004 and 2005 Buerhle was an ace. He has fallen a long way, though, going 22-22 the past two seasons and seeing his innings drop from 245 in 2004 to 201 last year. Buerhle is a middle of the rotation guy at this point in his career. Advantage: Wang Mark Buerhle-几年前或许他还有争议，04,05这两年他的确是ACE。但是他已经退步很多， 最近这两个球季他只有22胜22负的成绩，而且投球局数从04年的245局退步到去年的201局 Buerhle目前在他生涯中来说算是个在rotation中间(2,3,4号)的投手。小王胜 16. Oliver Perez — When I stop laughing maybe I’ll comment on this ………… OK, 15-10, 3.64 ERA last year. A nice year when there were no expectations for him, but he’s not an ace. When the Pirates thought he was he pitched himself back to AAA. Better than Wang? If you think so I feel sorry for you. Advantage: Wang Oliver Perez-看来我必须要停止笑才能够开始评论了....恩..去年15胜10败防御率3.64。 就从不期待他来看，去年对他来说的确是个很好的一年，但是他不算是个ACE。尤其是当 Pirates开始想他似乎应该重回到3A去投球。比王好？如果你觉得他比小王好，我会 对你这个想法感到很遗憾。小王胜 17. Scott Kazmir — Now this is a guy who COULD be an ace. He won a career high 13 games with a 3.48 ERA and worked more innings than Wang (206.7), but he is still young and still has a lot to prove. Included in that is whether or not he can stay healthy, carry a staff and pitch well in meaningful, pressure games. So far, he’s done none of those things. Advantage: Wang Scott Kazmir-这家伙现在或许是个ACE。他去年赢得生涯新高的13胜，而且防御率3.48 并且投球局数比小王还多(206.7局)，但是他还是太年轻，而且还有很多地方尚待证明他 是。像是他是否能够持续保持健康，在高张力的球赛下持续保持好的投球的品质及数量。 但是就目前来说，在过去那些局数他似乎还没做到。小王胜 18. Kelvim Escobar — Had a breakout season last year (18-7, 3.40 ERA), but prior to that was 90-90 in the first 10 seasons of his career. Great stuff, but one good season does not make him an ace. Advantage: Wang Kelvim Escobar-去年有个突出的一年，18胜7负，防御率3.40，但是在这个之前，他生涯 的前十球季的成绩却只有90胜90负。很好的投球品质，但是去年一年的好成绩并不能就此 证明他是个ACE。小王胜 19. Tim Hudson — This guy ‘was’ an ace for years in Oakland. He went 16-10 with a 3.33 ERA for Atlanta in 2007, his best season since 2003. Chews up a lot of innings and is a very good pitcher. To me, a lot like Haren or even Mike Mussina in his prime. Very good, I want him on my staff. But, I’m not sure he’s a No. 1 any longer. Advantage: Wang Tim Hudson--这家伙过去在奥克兰的几年是个ACE，在勇士队2007的成绩是16胜10负，防 御率3.33，自从他2003年球季以来最好的成绩。吃掉大量的局数，而且是个很好的投手。 对我来说，他很像是Haren或是过去的Mike Mussina。很好，我很希望他加入我的球队。 但是我从不确定他会是个No1投手。小王胜 20. Chad Billingsley — This guy has tremendous ability and might someday be an ace, but it’s too early for him to be in this conversation. It would like putting the Yankees’ Hughes in here, and at this point neither of them belong. Advantage: Wang Chad Billingsley-这家伙有很好的能力，或许未来他会是个ACE，但是现在在这个讨论中， 对他来说似乎还太早。就很像现在把洋基的Hughes放到这里来讨论一样，就目前来说他们 两个都不是。小王胜 21. Roy Oswalt — This guy is an ace, but last year pitched his fewest innings (212) and won his fewest games (14) since 2003. He is a guy who doesn’t fear big games and has a 3-2 record in post-season with a 3.66 ERA. This is a tough call for me, but based on how long he has been doing it and the fact that he is still at — or very near — his peak, I would go with the Astro ace. Advantage: Oswalt Roy Oswalt-这家伙是个ACE，但是去年他只投出从2003年以来的最少局数(212局)，而且 也投出最少的胜场数(14胜)。这家伙不畏惧任何大比赛，而且季後赛有着3.66的防御率， 3胜2败的成绩。对我来说这是个困难的选择，但是基於他已经维持这样的成绩很久，而且 事实上在这几年他仍然是在他的高峰期，我会认同他是Astro得ACE。Oswalt胜 22. Fausto Carmona — Carmona was tremendous last season in his first full year in the big leagues, going 19-8 with a 3.06 ERA in 215 innings. If he can do it again then I’ll say he is Wang’s class. But not yet. Advantage: Wang Fausto Carmona--Carmona在他去年第一个完整球季，他有很好的成绩19胜8负在215局的 投球中防御率3.06。如果他能够持续有这样的成绩，我会说他跟王建民是同个等级的。 但是目前还没有。所以王胜 23. Brad Penny — Penny has gone 32-13 the past two seasons. He did, however, post a 4.33 ERA in 2006 and that’s not an ‘ace’ ERA. Like with Carmona, I need to see another year like 2007, when he posted a 3.03 ERA and pitched 208 innings before I call him a real ace. Advantage: Wang Brad Penny--过去两个球季Brad Penny的成绩是32胜13负。但是他06年的防御4.33却不是 个ACE该有的防御率。就像Carmona一样，在我称他是个真正个ACE以前，我还需要个像是 2007年一样的成绩，3.03的防御率，并且208局的投球数。小王胜 So, of the 23 starting pitchers ‘Chad’ wants to put ahead of Wang I will give you five, and call Sabathia a ‘push.’ That doesn’t mean there are only 5 guys better than Wang (Roy Halladay, for example, wasn’t on this list). 所以到目前为止的23个Chad认为比小王强的先发投手中，我会认同其中五个，并且 Sabathia是平手。这并不代表只有五个人的表现比王好(想是Roy Halladay就不在名单中) If you are fair about it, though, and really look at the numbers you have to admit Wang ranks pretty darn high on the list of best starting pitchers in the league. 如果你是很公正的看这件事，并且确实的看这些数据，你会承认Wang在最佳先发投手 的排名中是卖明很高的 An ace? Definitely. 王是个ACE吗？当然!! Arguments, anyone? Let’s hear ‘em. 还有人想吵吗？我们看看他怎麽讲 --

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