There is no doubt that this title meant as much to Kobe, and to the public’s perception of his legacy, than perhaps any title has meant to any player in recent memory. In that spirit, we have been showered with stories praising Kobe, dissecting his relief, evaluating his transformation, figuring his place in history, analyzing his relationship with Phil and his teammates, etc., etc., ad nauseam. This has been fun, even if much of it is puffy, revisionist, or based on somewhat distorted generalizations about the facts (both statistical and otherwise). 这座冠军对Kobe有多大意义是毋庸置疑的,对於大众对他的传奇的认识也是一样大,甚至比 对任何球员都要大.我们已经看到很多夸奖Kobe的文章,分析他的接班人,衡量他的转变,研 究他的历史地位,探讨他和Phil及队友的关系....等等.这很有趣,尽管很多是膨风,胡扯,和 随便归纳(不管是数据还是其他). But we’ve also seen something of a Kobe backlash. This must be the case with Kobe, who polarizes and divides the sports world in strange ways usually associated only with religious/political figures. When you watch Kobe, you care. You don't lukewarmly clap as you do with Lebron, Wade, Paul, Duncan, or even Jordan. You follow with whole-souled loyalty and love or unbreakable hatred and opposition. No matter where you stand, you care about Kobe; you are interested in him; and you watch him with real emotional investment. Accordingly, having Kobe push through the finals every year is a boon for the league. No one stands at the water cooler debating Spurs-Pistons, or even something seemingly epic like Celtics-Cavs. 当然我们也会看到反科的文章.只要跟Kobe有关,整个运动世界就被分成奇怪的两派,简直和 宗教或政治一样.当你看Kobe(文章)时,你关心.你在看LeBron,Wade,Paul,Duncan,甚至 Jordan时,反应永远不会那麽热烈.你不是完全死忠和爱Kobe,就是恨死了而且永远反科.不 管你站在哪边,你都是关心Kobe,对他感兴趣,,而且投入很多的情绪.事实上Kobe每年打进总 冠军赛对联盟是莫大的利益.没人想讨论冷得像冰水的马刺对活塞,或者只是表面上被炒成 史诗的塞尔提克对骑士. The sports world might be more obsessed with Kobe’s legacy than perhaps any player in league (or sports) history. Jordan dispassionately ascended to the pinnacle; Duncan and Shaq are casually placed somewhere in the top 5-10 range; we didn’t argue about Magic and Bird’s place, they just kind of arrived near the top. But we argue and wrangle and declare Kobe’s place in the hierarchy of gods with a different spirit – one attended by stretched stats and forced comparisons. By the time his work is finished he’ll have put together a stunning body of work. If he plays another 5-6 years and LA makes several more deep playoff runs, we could be looking at something in the realm of 5-6 titles, 8-9 finals appearances, multiple finals mvp awards, 15-16 all nba first teams, 12 all nba defense teams, 3-4 all star mvp awards, 3rd all time scorer, all time playoff scorer, two time olympic gold medalist, not to mention the unparalleled highlights. He’ll have won the title with two wholly different teams, both opposed by (potentially) all time top 5 greats in their prime (Duncan and Lebron). This may be optimistic, but it’s more possible than you think. Kobe的传奇可能比其他任何球员(或运动员)更能让运动世界令人着迷.Jordan太过完美的登 上了巅峰;Duncan和Shaq一定会被排在Top5-10,也没人会怀疑魔术和大鸟的地位,他们无疑 都站在顶端.但是我们不断的争论Kobe的地位是否已经到神的等级-透过数据和不断的强迫 比较.当Kobe完成他的生涯,他的成绩可能会让人目瞪口呆.如果他再打5-6年,而且湖人都能 在季後赛打得很深,我们可能看到一个Kobe王朝:5-6座总冠军,8-9次西区冠军,几座总冠军 MVP,15-16次NBA第一队,12次NBA防守队,3-4次明星赛MVP,史上得分榜第三,史上季後赛得分 王,两次奥运金牌,更别提无数精彩画面.他将会打败当代最强的两个球员(Duncan和LeBron) 的球队赢得冠军.这也许太过乐观,但是比你想得更有可能发生. The Kobe haters sense this and know that this title acts as a swift and final counter to their long paraded criticisms. They see that Kobe is on his way to achieving something un-rebuttable (if that is a word) and that drives them mad. And so, we hear old and new criticisms whispered (or trumpeted in Simmons case) against Kobe: This Laker team was just the least flawed among a flawed group of contenders. Kobe still has not learned to trust his teammates and make them better. His relationship with Phil and his teammates is staged; they can’t stand him at heart. His numbers look sparkling but he was inefficient and selfish; the real credit belongs with Ariza, Gasol, and others. Even with this title, Kobe is not Jordan and is now worse than Lebron. 反科迷也意识到这座冠军等於是对他们长期以来批评的倒数计时,他们看到Kobe将要达成他 们无法反对的成就,这让他们气疯了.因此我们又听到一些旧的新的对Kobe批评的耳语( Simmons老兄是大声疾呼啦): 这支湖人只是众多缺点很多的球队中比较没缺点的那支而已. Kobe还是没学会相信队友并让他们更好. 他和Phil,和队友的关系是装的,他们没有心连心. 他的数据很好看但是没效率,真正有贡献的是Ariza,Gasol,和其他人. 即使赢了冠军,Kobe还是比不上Jordan,现在也输给LeBron. The goal of the Kobe hater is clear: undermine, undermine, undermine. Now, as a Laker blog we are duty bound to defend our shining knight. More significantly, we are a blog devoted to reason, evidence, and substantive discussion. We despise fluff and all of its corollaries. As this recent wave of Kobe attacks are based on shallow and/or false interpretations of the factual record (or no facts at all), they will be addressed in turn. Above all of that, I’m bored and enjoy arguing, so I will take on take on some of these Kobe criticisms. 反科迷的目标很明显:贬低,贬低,再贬低.现在,身为湖人部落格的作者,我们有责任扞卫我 们的骑士.我们是一个理性,证据,实在讨论的部落格.我们鄙视错误百出的推论.最近对Kobe 的攻击是根基於对於事实(有时甚至不是事实)的肤浅和错误解读,因为我很无聊又爱争论, 我将负责依次反击这些批评. Now, in full disclosure, I am an unabashed Kobe homer. But I am reasonable and mostly capable of objectivity. Above all, I support my conclusions with facts. I don’t interpret facial expressions, read minds, reconstruct conversations, or analyze hugs and handshakes. Such is irresponsible journalism, and, even though I am not a journalist, I find it somewhere between silly and offensive. 现在,我完全承认我是科迷,但是我很理性且努力做到客观.我用事实支持我的理论,我不做 看面相,读心术,或者说文解字,或者分析肢体语言.这些都是不负责任的报导,虽然我不是妓 者,我还是觉得这种报导可笑且冒犯人. 1. Kobe is Not Jordan This is often used in support of the go to anti-Kobe argument: that he is not Jordan. How many times have we all heard this? “Yeah, well, he may have X, but Kobe’s still not Jordan no matter what he does.” The most relevant and simple response is, of course, who cares. We have nothing riding on Kobe being Jordan. We care about titles and glory for LA and we receive an abundant portion of both. Furthermore, as Dex noted so eloquently, why this fascination with ranking athletes? Given the wildly different context in which every superstar plays, we are fundamentally incapable of objectively comparing them. Wilt vs. Shaq? Stockton vs. Cousy? Bird v. Lebron? There’s no way to accurately make these comparisons. But even if we could, why do we need to? More Dex: we don’t sit around and rank Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, and Joyce. They are all transcendent geniuses and we simply appreciate that they mastered their craft and brighten our world in different, though always brilliant ways. 1.Kobe不是Jordan 这是反科最常用的言论:Kobe不是Jordan.我们到底听到这句话几次了?"噢,对,Kobe达成了X ,但是Kobe不管做什麽他还是比不上Jordan."基本上意思就是说,管他的,反正Jordan永远骑 在Kobe头上.我们关心的是湖人的冠军和光荣,我们也得到了.这麽爱比的话,干嘛不把明星 球员都拿来超级比一比?Wilt vs. Shaq? Stockton vs. Cousy? Bird v. Lebron?你根本无 法在这种比较中得出精确的结果.就算可以,我们干嘛要比?你会去把托尔斯泰, 杜斯妥也夫斯基,乔伊斯做排名吗?他们都是卓越的天才,我们感谢他们留下作品改变了世界 ,这才是聪明的方法. Nevertheless, as Kobe comparisons with Jordan will never go away, let’s ensure that they proceed on the facts, not some revisionist and agenda-driven notion of them. 无论如何,既然Kobe和Jordan的比较免不了,那麽我们要确定它是根据事实,不是修正主义或 者印象派. Kobe VS Jordan finals Points FGA FG% FT% 3P% Rebounds Assists Player A 33.5 27.3 42.7 81.4 30.8 4 2.3 Player B 32.3 26.3 45.5 76.4 32 7 6 Player C 27.3 20.5 41.5 83.6 31.6 5.3 4.2 Player D 32.4 27 43 84.1 36 5.6 7.4 This chart represents four sets of finals statistics from MJ and Kobe. Which set is the most impressive? It has to be Player D, right? Although he shot a somewhat lower percentage from the field than Player B, this is more than overcome by the higher free throw and 3 point %’s, along with significantly higher rebound and assist totals. Players A-C is Jordan during his last three finals runs (98, 97, and 96); Player D is Kobe in 2009. 这表格显示MJ和Kobe在总冠军赛的表现.哪一个球员最让人印象深刻?D球员,对吧?即使他投 篮命中率比B球员低一些,但是也有更高的罚球和三分命中率,篮板球和助攻也比其他人来得 高.A-C是96~98的Jordan,D是今年的Kobe. Beyond showing that Kobe is indeed firmly in Jordan’s ballpark (at least “ Phase II Jordan”), these statistics rebut a few attacks levied against Kobe recently. First, they show that Kobe is as willing of a passer, if not more so, than Jordan – and this is at the end of Jordan’s career, when he was supposedly the most team-oriented. Kobe has been accused of recklessly jacking up shots on a solo mission, with Jordan held up as the prototype. But Jordan shot as frequently as Kobe, even though his shooting percentage in two of the three finals is lower than Kobe’s. Jordan didn’t just pass to Paxson one day and ride off to a pass-happy, gunner-controlled sunset. 上面显示了Kobe表现其实和Jordan差不多(至少,第二阶段的Jordan),这是对Kobe批评有力 的回击.这显示Kobe也是个至少和Jordan一样好的传球者-这是在Jordan的生涯後期,应该是 他最有团队观念的时刻.Kobe被指控一直做单打跳投,Jordan的跳投则是模范.但是事实上 Jordan出手次数和Kobe一样多,有两年他的命中率还比Kobe低.Jordan不是把球传给Paxon以 後就不出手了耶. Did Kobe take some ill advised shots? Undoubtedly. But what does that prove? What superstar wing doesn’t? Besides Jordan, only two other players in nba history have averaged 30 points and 7 assists in the finals – Kobe and Jerry West. Kobe’s unselfish playmaking in the finals is nearly unparalleled. By way of comparison, Wade, who gets so much credit for his 2006 finals run, averaged 3.8 assists per game – half of Kobe’s total. Kobe有没有做一些勉强出手?当然有,但是那又证明什麽?哪个明星锋卫没有?除了Jordan,只 有两个人能在总冠军赛平均30分7助攻-Kobe和Jerry West.Kobe在总冠军赛的无私表现几乎 是无可比拟的,Wade在2006冠军赛的表现得到很多评价,但是他3.8助攻只有Kobe的一半. Second, Kobe was as efficient as Jordan during his last three title runs. Jordan’s free throw and 3 point percentages were lower every year. Much is made of Kobe’s struggles in games 3 and 4 of the finals, but Jordan was equally capable of having an off night. In the 98 finals Jordan shot over 50% once and put up shooting nights of 9-26, 14-33, 15-35, and 13-29. In the 97 finals, Chicago lost games 3 and 4 as Jordan shot 9-22 and 11-27. In 96 against Seattle, two of the final three games witnessed 6-19 and 5-19 performances. My point is that it is disingenuous to knock Kobe for having an off game now and then. Yes Kobe sometimes forces things when he doesn’t have it, but it is revisionist history to say that Jordan didn’t sometimes do the same. Much like Kobe’s Lakers, Jordan’s Bulls were complete teams that were fully capable of winning when he showed his mortal side. And, like Kobe, Jordan was capable of controlling a game even with a struggling jumper. 第二,Kobe和Jordan一样有效率,Jordan的罚球和三分球一年比一年低,和Kobe在G3,G4的情 况很像,但是Jordan就被允许有一场表现不好,98冠军赛,Jordan有一场命中率高於50%,但是 其他场是9-26, 14-33, 15-35,和13-29.97冠军赛,公牛输掉G3,G4,Jordan只有9-22和11-27 .96对西雅图,G4和G6是6-19和5-19.我的重点是,Kobe有时候会失常,以後也会,是的他有时 候太过强求,但是历史告诉我们Jordan也是一样.Kobe的湖人和Jordan的公牛一样,即使他们 露出凡人的那一面仍然能赢球,而Jordan也和Kobe一样,当他们跳投不顺时仍然能掌控比赛. When evaluating and comparing efficiency, we also need to place these performances in their proper context. Kobe’s last two finals runs have been against the teams that finished first in defensive efficiency (Boston and Orlando). Is it fair to hold it against him that he shot a few percentage points lower than usual? Continuing the above comparison, Jordan’s 98 finals were against the league’s 16th ranked defense (Utah), and the 97 finals against the 9th ranked defense (Utah). If Kobe played against Milwaukee or Dallas in the finals (two middle of the road defensive teams), what would his numbers have looked like? 当比较效率的时候,我们要先了解正确的背景:Kobe过去两次总冠军赛面对的是联盟防守效 率第一的球队(波士顿和奥兰多).批评他命中率比平时低是公平的吗?Jordan在98年面对的 犹他只排第16,97犹他排第9,如果Kobe面对的是达拉斯或密尔瓦基(两支防守中段班球队). 他的数据会是如何? Now, my point is not that Kobe is as good as or better than Jordan. He has obviously not put together an equivalent body of work. And, it is fair to point out that Jordan was 32-34 during the three finals runs listed above (although with much less mileage than Kobe will have at a similar stage due to college and baseball). More importantly, Kobe has not approximated Jordan’ s first three finals runs, which are simply off the charts. For example, 1993 against Phoenix: 41 points, 8.5 rebounds, 6.3 assists on 50.7% shooting. Although even these great early finals runs for Jordan need to be read in context. With respect to the Phoenix series, note that (1) Phoenix had the 9th ranked defense, and (2) the league shot almost 2% points higher in the early 90s compared with recent seasons. I keep harping on the former point because it is salient — in any year it is difficult to maintain peak efficiency against the very elite defenses. Consider that in those same 1993 playoffs Jordan faced the league’s #1 defense in the conference finals (New York) and had a nightmare series, averaging only 10 makes on 26 attempts, good for 40% shooting. In the first three games of this series, he shot 10-28, 12-32, and 3-18. In the final game he went 8-24. That represents 4 of the 6 games (although he did have a huge 54 point explosion in game 4, when the Bulls were down 2-1 and needed a win). 我的重点并不是说Kobe和Jordan一样或是更好.因为他们当时身体情况不同,必须指出 Jordan在那三次冠军赛已经32-34岁了(虽然高中弃学的Kobe里程数可能差不多).更重要的, Kobe还比不上Jordan第一次三连霸的表现,1993对太阳:41分8.5篮板6.3助攻,50.7%命中率. 不过也得指出当时太阳防守只排联盟第九,而且当时联盟得分比现在高2%.我一直唠叨过去 的分数是因为你碰到顶尖防守球队要保持效率是很难的.同一年碰到防守第一的纽约, Jordan有了个恶梦系列,平均投26只中10,命中率40%,前三场比赛他是10-28,12-32,和3-18, 最後一场是8-24.(虽然他在G5有54分爆发) Still, Kobe’s not Jordan. His career resume and best playoff performances still fall short. We don’t ultimately care, but many of the arguments that attempt to discredit Kobe by pointing to Jordan simply get the facts wrong. I don’t want to hear that Kobe’s on a stubborn solo mission, won’t pass, and has too many mortal games — and have Jordan thrown in my face. Kobe just put up a finals that was on par with and probably eclipsed Jordan’s last three finals, and he did so against the league’s best defensive team. Kobe仍然不是Jordan,他的生涯还在继续,他的表现也不是史上最佳季後赛表现.我们根本不 在乎.但是那些用Jordan来贬损Kobe的人明显错了.我不要再听什麽Kobe是自干王不传球,然 後打得很烂等等等等-然後把Jordan丢过来.Kobe刚刚在总冠军赛证明了他和第二次三连霸 的Jordan打得一样好,而且是面对联盟第一的防守球队. 2. Kobe is Not Lebron Now, this is also true: Kobe is not Lebron. But now I’m speaking metaphysically as opposed to comparatively. The common argument goes something like this. Lebron is better than Kobe because his stats are far superior; the only reason Lebron didn’t beat Orlando and Kobe did is because Lebron’s teammates forsook him. 2.Kobe不是Lebron 现在,这也是事实:Kobe不是Lebron.不过我现在要反驳一些抽象的比较.什麽Lebron比Kobe 好因为数据比较漂亮啦,Lebron没打败奥兰多而Kobe赢了是因为他的队友比较差啦.... The truth is that Lebron’s stats against Orlando (and during the regular season) are far superior to Kobe’s, but they don’t tell the whole story. Lebron and Kobe’s stats vs. Orlando: 事实上LeBron对上奥兰多的数据是胜於Kobe,但数据不是全部: Kobe and LeBron VS Orlando Points FG% FT% 3P% Rebounds Assists Team off efficiency Kobe 32.4 43 84.1 36 5.6 7.4 110.1 LeBron 38.5 48.7 74.5 29.7 8.3 8 109.7 What do we make of these numbers? Well, in terms of pure volume Lebron wins out. He also shot a significantly higher percentage from the field. But I want to extrapolate from the team offensive efficiency and three point shooting numbers. Both LA and Cleveland demolished Orlando’s league leading defense with 110 ratings, but LA did it as a team and Lebron did it alone. One way of viewing this is to praise Lebron over Kobe; the other is to recognize that Lebron was less capable of opening up the game for his teammates. I posit that Kobe’s refined offensive game actually is much more conducive to creating and enhancing teammate opportunities, even if Lebron is usually praised as the more willing passer. 为什麽要列这些数据?看起来LeBron好像赢了,他投篮命中率也比较高.但是我要从团队进攻 效率和三分命中率来分析.洛杉矶和克里夫兰两队都以110的效率破坏奥兰多联盟第一的防 守,但是洛杉矶是靠团队而LeBron是靠自己.一个解读方法是LeBron比Kobe好,但另一方面也 可以说LeBron帮队友制造的空档不够.Kobe精致的进攻更有助於创造和增加队友机会,即使 LeBron一直被夸奖是更好的传球者. Ric Bucher actually got me thinking about this in a Simmons podcast. He said that while Lebron put up sparkling numbers, he did so very inefficiently – but not in the sense that he shot a low %. Instead, Lebron’s lack of post game and three point shooting force him to dribble endlessly while searching for an opening to penetrate, eating away at the shot clock and leaving teammates standing stagnant. The result was often a powerful Lebron drive or free throws, but it came at a heavy cost for team play – the defense can largely play him one on one, play off him a few feet, and stay at home on his teammates. Orlando did this beautifully and Lebron fell for the trap, leading to his teammates really struggling to get easy opportunities from the field. It was Lebron or nothing every possession. Ric Bucher的podcast给了我这个想法.他说LeBron取得漂亮数据的方式极度没效率-不是因 为命中率低.因为他缺乏低位技巧和三分,迫使他必须无止尽的运球寻找空间切入,吃掉大量 的进攻时间而队友只能站着看戏.结果通常是漂亮的LeBron切入或罚球,但是这严重伤害到 团队进攻-对手只要一对一防他就好,其他人看着他的队友根本不用移动.奥兰多就很漂亮的 执行,而LeBron也掉进陷阱,让他的队友根本很难有空档,每一波进攻不是LeBron得分就是不 进. Compare this with Kobe’s game against Orlando. Kobe is the single best post up guard in the league – his strength, footwork, and moves render him deadly on the block. As a consequence, Orlando had to double team Kobe every time he got the ball down low. Furthermore, Kobe’s unlimited range force his man to stick with him out past the three point line, even on the weak side. Kobe can score from anywhere with very little effort, whether it’s in the post, outside the three point line, on a pick and roll, in the midrange, etc. He’s also a deadly free throw shooter so the defense has to play him honest. The result? Kobe is much more capable of efficiently breaking down a defense than Lebron. Why was Fisher wide open for the game-winning three in overtime of game 4? Because Orlando had to double Kobe in the post. Why did Trevor Ariza shoot dozens and dozens of threes with no one within 10 feet of him? Ditto. Why do Pau and Odom work such an effective high-low game after Kobe initiates the pick and roll? Because the defense knows Kobe can pull up quickly from anywhere. Why did Gasol see so much single coverage? On and on we could go. 比较一下Kobe对奥兰多的比赛.Kobe是联盟最佳的低位进攻後卫,他的力量,脚步和移动使他 对防守者相当致命.结果就是每次Kobe在低位接到球,奥兰多就有麻烦.此外,Kobe的无限射 程使他即使在弱边,防守者也必须从三分线外就紧贴.Kobe可以在任何地方很轻松的得分,不 管是在低位,三分线,挡切,中距离等等.他的罚球也很准使防守者不敢随便犯规.结果?Kobe 比LeBron更能有效摧毁对手防守.为什麽Fisher有致胜三分空档?因为奥兰多必须去包夹 Kobe的低位.为什麽Ariza有大到像海的三分空档?理由同上.为什麽Kobe启动挡切後Pau和 Odom能够如此有效率的打高低位配合?因为防守者知道Kobe会在任何地方拔起来跳投.为什 麽Gasol有这麽多单打机会?我们可以一直讲下去. This is how a team starting Smush Parker, Brian Cook, and Kwame Brown finished 8th in offensive efficiency in 2006. Think about that. So, while Kobe may not shoot the same percentage from the field as Lebron, his diverse, quick-hitting, polished offensive game makes him much more capable of breaking down the heart of a defense and opening up opportunities for others. All of those easy shots were there for Fisher, Ariza, Gasol, and Odom because of Kobe. And credit to them for rising up and making them. 这就是为什麽用Smush Parker,Brian Cook和Kwame Brown先发的球队还能在06年进攻效率 排第八的原因.想一想吧.Kobe可能命中率没LeBron高,但是他多变,快速,流畅的进攻更能破 坏防守者心志为队友制造空档.Fisher,Ariza,Gasol和Odom得到的轻松得分机会都是因为有 Kobe. I recognize that Lebron may have had a superior regular season than Kobe, but remember that one of them consistently cracked the elite teams and the other did not. In terms of driving a team to success, Kobe is still miles ahead of Lebron. 也许LeBron有一个比较好的例行赛,但是记得他们有一个人能持续痛击对手而另一个没有. 在领导球队成功上,Kobe仍然遥遥领先. -- Ask around the league, "Who is the hardest player to guard?" The answer is inevitably: “Oh, you mean, besides Kobe?” --

※ 发信站: 批踢踢实业坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From: 114.39.17.35 ※ 编辑: richard1003 来自: 114.39.17.35 (06/23 16:43) ※ kb81:转录至看板 KobeBryant 06/23 16:59 ※ 编辑: richard1003 来自: 114.39.17.35 (06/23 19:34)