※ 引述《pursuistmi (common people)》之铭言： : 标题:SPIEGEL INTERVIEW WITH US COMMERCE SECRETARY GUTIERREZ : 'Isolationist Policies Would Be a Big Mistake' : Should Russia face economic repercussions from the Georgia war? US Commerce : Secretary Carlos Gutierrez told SPIEGEL how the West should respond, : discussed the state of free trade in the world and talked about US : presidential candidate John McCain. 俄罗斯该因乔治亚战事而面临经济上的反弹吗？美国商务部长Carlos Gutierrez 在接受德国新闻杂志SPIEGEL访问时谈及西方该如何应对。他也提到了世界自由 贸易的问题，以及美国总统参选人McCain。 : Part I : SPIEGEL: Mr. Secretary, Russian troops are still in Georgia. NATO just : decided to freeze its relationship with Moscow. Should the West limit its : economic dealings with Russia as well? SPIEGEL: 部长先生，俄罗斯部队还停留在乔治亚境内。北约刚决定要冻结与莫斯科的 关系。西方国家是否也该跟进，限制其与俄罗斯的经济往来？ : Carlos Gutierrez: Russia is putting itself into a very difficult situation. : President Bush has been very clear on this: We have worked with Russia and we : have been an advocate for Russia's entry into the world community. We have : welcomed them into the group of the leading industrial nations. We welcomed : Russia's desire to join the World Trade Organisation. They are putting all : that at risk. Carlos Gutierrez: 俄罗斯正将自己陷入困境。布希总统说得很清楚：我们曾与俄国 合作过，我们也想帮助俄国融入国际社群。我们欢迎俄国加入先进工业国集团和WTO 俄国的作为却有可能让他们失去所有的这些机会。 : SPIEGEL: That means: Russia should be kicked out of the G-8 and should not be : allowed to join the WTO? SPIEGEL: 也就是说俄国会被踢出G8，也不应获准加入WTO? : Gutierrez: We should always keep our options open and not start negotiating : with ourselves. The Russians have to reconsider their own interests. Gutierrez: 我们应该对所有选项持开放的态度，不应闭门造车。俄国也应该重新思考 他们自身的利益。 : SPIEGEL: What options are you referring to exactly? SPIEGEL：所以到底有哪些选项呢？ : Gutierrez: That we stop being an advocate for Russia's entry into the world : community. They need to abide to the six-point agreement in Georgia that was : signed. And I believe that President Bush acted wisely when he did not rule : out any further options. Other nations should follow up. GUtierrez: 我们可能不会再支持俄国加入国际社群。俄国必须遵循在乔治亚签订的 六点协定。我认为布希总统不排除任何选项的态度是很明智的。其他国也应该跟进。 : SPIEGEL: Punitive measures are tricky for Europeans -- perhaps given the : dependence of many countries in Europe on Russian oil and gas. How dangerous : is this dependence? SPIEGEL: 采行惩罚手段对欧洲来说是很棘手的一件事，因为许多欧洲国家都仰赖俄国 的石油和天然气供应。这种依赖会造成什麽程度的危机呢？ : Gutierrez: We are all too dependent on oil and gas from countries that don’t : necessarily share our interests. Americans and Europeans should work together : to reduce this dependency. Oil can be used as a political tool. Gutierrez: 我们全都仰赖某些国家的石油和天然气供应，而这些国家的利益不一定和 我们的利益一致。美国和欧洲应该同心协力减少这样的依赖，因为石油也是一种政治 工具。 : SPIEGEL: You mean as a political weapon? SPIEGEL： 你的意思是石油也可作为一种政治武器吗？ : Gutierrez: As something to impact our national well-being and our national : security. Gutierrez: 石油可作为一种手段来影响我们的国家福祉和国家安全。 : SPIEGEL: Many talk about energy independence. How to achieve it, though, is : much more controversial. SPIEGEL：关於能源独立性的讨论很多，但是如何达到能源独立却是一个颇具争议的问 题。 : Gutierrez: The president said we have to produce more of our oil. We also : should be willing to do what many countries in Europe have done -- using more : nuclear power, for instance. We think it is a smart policy not to exclude any : national source of energy. We can learn from each other. Gutierrez: 总统曾说过：我们自己需要生产更多石油。我们也必需提振意愿，效法 很多欧洲国家的作法，也就是提高核能的使用量。我们认为，不排除任何一种国家能源 来源是一明智的政策，我们也可以互相学习。 : SPIEGEL: There are indications, though, that we are entering a new era in : which countries focus more on their own national interests. The Doha Round -- : which aimed to lower trade barriers and increase global trade -- just failed. : Who is to blame? SPIEGEL： 然而有些迹象显示，在即将来临的这个世代中，每个国家都会偏重自身的利 益。多哈回合谈判的目标是要降低贸易壁垒，促进全球贸易，然而谈判却触礁了。 谁该为此负责？ : Gutierrez: I have not given up hope that we can one day achieve a : multilateral agreement. And the reason for that is because there is too much : to be gained by free trade. That’s one of the really great ideas. You have : probably seen the projections for the hundreds of millions of people that : could be lifted out of poverty and helped with an agreement. But we couldn't : achieve a worldwide consensus at this moment. Gutierrez: 我对达成多边协议的这个目标还没放弃希望，因为自由贸易能带来的好处 真的很多，这也真的是一个很好的想法。你可能有看过一些数据预测，说建立协议能够 使上亿人脱贫，使他们获得帮助，但是我们目前还无法达成全球共识。 : SPIEGEL: Why? SPIEGEL： 为什麽？ : Gutierrez: Well, getting 153 WTO member nations to come to an agreement is a : challenge. That’s why the US for years has created a trade policy based on : bilateral agreement. We should continue to be very aggressive with these : bilateral free trade agreements. We have done it already with Mexico, Canada : und countries in Latin America. It has been good for our exports. Gutierrez: 要让WTO的153个成员达成共识是一项挑战。这也就是为什麽长久以来美国 创建的贸易政策都是奠基於双边协议。我们应该要持续积极推动这些双边自由贸易协定 我们已和墨西哥，加拿大，还有拉丁美洲国家订立协定。这对我们的出口有益。 : SPIEGEL: But not necessarily for American jobs. There is a heated debate in : the US on the benefits of free trade. Workers in Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania : and Illinois -- once the industrial heartland of the country -- see : themselves as being the losers of free trade policies. SPIEGEL：但是对美国的工作机会不一定有益。针对自由贸易的利益这个题目，在美国国 内有非常激烈的论辩。俄亥俄州，密西根州，宾州，伊利诺州以前都是美国的工业重心 但是这些地方的工作者却认为自己是自由贸易政策下的输家。 : Gutierrez: If there is an individual that has been impacted by trade and lost : his job, there is nothing I can tell him that would justify what happened. : The problem is that too often people use trade as an excuse. And in the world : of sound bites and quick statements, that is what people hear. They blame : free trade but it is technical progress that’s responsible. Gutierrez: 如果有人受到贸易的影响而丢了饭碗，我怎麽跟他解释都没用。现在的问 题是大家经常把问题都归咎於贸易。在媒体发达，资讯爆炸的时代，大家所听所闻都是 这样的说法。有些人怪罪贸易，但是技术上有无进步才是问题的原因。 : SPIEGEL: Millions of Americans want trade that isn't just free, but is also : fair. SPIEGEL: 很多美国人想要的不只是自由贸易，他们更想要「公平」的贸易。 : Gutierrez: I agree in fair and free trade -- as long as the word "fair" is : not a code word for isolationism. Gutierrez: 我赞同公平自由贸易，但是所谓「公平」的意涵指的不应该是孤立主义。 : SPIEGEL: In the US, a number of politicians have suggested that they would : like to renegotiate NAFTA -- the free trade agreement between Mexico, Canada : and the US. SPIEGEL：有些美国政治人物表示他们想要针对北美自由贸易协定，也就是墨西哥，加拿 大，美国三国间的自由贸易协定，进行重新谈判。 : Gutierrez: I find it, frankly, almost embarrassing that the $14 trillion : dollar economy wants to renegotiate with the $800 million dollar economy. Gutierrez: 老实说，我觉得一个规模14兆美元的经济体要和规模8亿美元的经济体重新 谈判，真是让人觉得有点丢脸。 : SPIEGEL: Would you go so far as to say that free trade in the US is at risk : if a Democrat gets elected in November? SPIEGEL： 如果11月大选当选的是民主党人，你觉得美国的自由贸易会受影响吗？ : Gutierrez: I would say that if we were to adopt isolationist policies, that : would be a big mistake. Gutierrez: 我觉得，如果我们采取孤立主义政策，那会是个很大的错误。 : SPIEGEL: Aren't you concerned at all about the enormous trade deficit in the : US? America was once the biggest exporter in the world, but now, the country : is the biggest importer in the world. SPIEGEL： 你难道不会担心美国巨大的贸易赤字吗？美国曾是世界上最大的出口国，但 是现在却成了世界上最大的进口国。 : Gutierrez: There are also other more significant numbers to show if an : economy is succeeding: the growth rate, the unemployment rate, or inflation. : We could tackle the trade deficit pretty aggressively if we wanted to, but : the question is, what would it do to those three numbers? There are countries : in Europe that have trade surpluses, but their unemployment rate is much : higher and their growth rate has not been as fast as in our country. Gutierrez: 一个经济体是否成功，还有其他更重要的数据可以参考。例如成长率，失 业率或是通膨。我们的确可以采取很积极的作法来处理贸易赤字，但问题是，这会对其 他三项数据造成什麽影响？欧洲一些国家有贸易顺差，但是他们的失业率高很多，他们 的经济成长也不如我们快。 : SPIEGEL: Are you talking about export-success-story Germany? SPIEGEL: 你指的是在出口方面相当成功的德国吗？ : Gutierrez: I just want to say in general: There are countries in Europe with : a trade surplus but a growth rate of 1.5 percent compared with our 2.5 to 3.0 : percent growth over the past six years. Their unemployment rate is not 5.7 : percent as in the US, but rather 8 percent. Gutierrez: 总的来看，有的欧洲国家有贸易顺差，但经济成长率只有1.5％. 我们在过去6年却有2.5到3.0的成长率。我们的失业率是5.7％，他们却是8％. : SPIEGEL: Early last year, Chancellor Angela Merkel promoted a trans-Atlantic : free trade pact with the US. Initially, President Bush seemed supportive of : the idea, but not much has happened since. SPIEGEL: 去年初，梅克尔总理推行一项与美国的跨大西洋自由贸易协定。一开始布希 总统好像支持这项提议，但是後来却没有下文。 : Gutierrez: We had one or two meetings. That is obviously not enough, but we : are getting started. These are issues that require consistency and patience : and it is going to require a lot of work. We need to be closer together and : with our eyes open in terms of what is happening in the world economy. We : should take a stand on the importance and the value of intellectual property : -- in defense against those abusing our brands and licenses. Gutierrez: 我们举行过一两次会议，当然这还是很不够，但是我们已经起步了。 处理这些议题时步调要一致，也需要耐性，因为过程中需要很多努力。我们彼此的关系 要更加紧密，同时也要注意世界经济体系的状况。我们应该要对智慧财产的重要性和价 值表明立场，来对抗那些滥用我们品牌和证照的人。 : SPIEGEL: Are you referring to China? SPIEGEL: 你是指中国吗？ : Gutierrez: Our brands or patents or trademarks are very important for our : economies. Americans and Europeans need to collaborate on this shared : interest. Is a BMW produced in South Carolina more of an American car than a : Ford produced in Germany? There is a lot of shared interest in intellectual : property on both sides of the Atlantic. Gutierrez: 我们的品牌，专利，或是商标对我们的经济非常重要。美国和欧洲国家 要在这项共同利益上合作。在南卡罗莱纳州制造的一辆BMW比起一辆在德国制的福特 车，哪一部比较够资格称美国车？在美国和欧洲，智慧财产的共同利益非常大。 : : http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,574126,00.html : 新闻来源: (需有正确连结) --

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