作者john0312 (Chen John L)
看板Headphone
标题Re: [讨论] 无意间爬知识+看到
时间Wed Jul 8 11:29:41 2009
对於不同的CD格式, 我们首先要看的, 是数位资讯如何的存在这些载体当中.
CD 是采用 44.1kHz/16bit Stereo Pulse Code Modulation
SHM-CD 是 2.8224 MHz Direct Stream Digital ( Please refer to that
oversampling thing )
BluRay disk则不一定, BluRay支援许多格式(PCM, Digital Dolby, DTS... etc), 而且
有一些还是有损压缩, 而实际使用的格式才能决定他的品质.
也就是说, 从这些光碟里面读出来的资料不一定相同. 我猜测BluRay里面你们听到的应该
是192kHz/24bit PCM, 因为其他几乎都是有损压缩格式. 如果他采用有损压缩格式, 音质
必定会下降.
另外, 这三种格式的物理结构也有差距. 例如说BluRay的资料层较接近於表面, 所以他比
较容易被刮伤. 这些都会影响音质.
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再来讨论CD to CD variation. 感谢louis0407兄提出的两篇论文
I've checked the Audio Engineering Society, and discovered that the two
abovementioned paper actually cost twenty USD each. Therefore I doubt if you
have actually read them before. I've to admit that I myself have not read
them before as well, as I am not that rich to buy that paper. However, I have
found later papers that are done by the same authors as the two
abovementioned paper (Ian Dennis and Julian Dunn). The paper discussed the
various possibilities that will cause two numerically identical Compact Disc
to sound different.
First of all, if the same digital data is feed to the DAC, it will produce
the same analog waveform everytime, no matter where the digital data is from.
However, there's one exception to the above statement, that is the power
supply. We have to be aware that the two stepper motor used in the CD-ROM
drive is inductive load, and due to the fast changing current, will cause the
positive power rail to flunctuate if the power supply is not well designed.
If the positive power rail flunctuates, it will be coupled into the internal
Zener Diode voltage reference of the DAC. However, in modern CD Player
design, the power supply for inductive loads ( the two motors ), the digital
loads and the analog loads are completely seperated, that means it will not
cause any observable change in the DAC output.
Therefore, whatsoever that causes variation between CDs will cause the input
to the DAC to change as well. In the paper, the authors addressed several
issues, such as the different ways that a PCM signal could have been encoded
in the CD-ROM, which might lead to differences between the master recording
and the pressed CDs. As I've mentioned before, in the old times, because
hardwares are not capable of that much calculation, they do not check if the
data they read is erroneous, which leads to errors ( the so called jitters )
being passed onto the DAC, and leads to degradation of audio quality.
In the paper, the author also carried out one mass listening test, and one
"golden ear" listening test. However, neither of the two listening test is
able to show that the difference between CDs, if any, is audiable, even to
expert listener, or the so called "golden ears".
In conclusion, if we are able to ensure that the motor noise doesn't get
coupled into the sensitive analog circuits, and if use error correcting
softwares to ensure that the data read from the CD-ROM drive is correct, we
can be assured that there is no variation between audio CDs that are
numerically equivalent.
EDIT:
The paper is at:
http://www.prismsound.com/m_r_downloads/cdinvest.pdf
--
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◆ From: 220.133.76.65
※ 编辑: john0312 来自: 220.133.76.65 (07/08 11:37)
1F:推 SeaSprite:大推!! 07/08 15:12
2F:→ SeaSprite:懒的看全文可以看最後一段或最後一句 但推荐全读 07/08 15:14
3F:推 louis0407:我确实没看那三篇的全文 这一说起来 是我不够负责 07/08 16:49
4F:→ louis0407:不过这三篇论文是我在看一些讨论时 里面提到的 那篇讨论 07/08 16:50
5F:→ louis0407:的主题是为何cd听起来会不同 换句话说 他们是建立在 07/08 16:50
6F:→ louis0407:同曲目cd听起来会不同(即使数位资料一致)这个共识下 07/08 16:51
7F:→ louis0407:其中有提到一些相关的AES论文 因此我拿了几篇 本意只是 07/08 16:52
8F:→ louis0407:说明确实有这样的学术讨论 但只看过几段引用就乱贴 07/08 16:53
9F:→ louis0407:确实不甚恰当 这点我应该检讨 07/08 16:54
10F:推 louis0407:至於你的结论 你为何不亲自尝试? 还是你已做过听觉测试? 07/08 16:57
11F:→ louis0407:我的看法是我不质疑这件事的存在 但是我不清楚why 07/08 16:57
12F:推 louis0407:顺便建议一下 能把jitter,offset还有error分开吗 这样 07/08 17:12
13F:→ louis0407:会更容易厘清观念(或者说分歧) 对我来说 jitter和error 07/08 17:13
14F:→ louis0407:是不该混在一起互相替代的 虽然他们确实相关 07/08 17:13
15F:推 louis0407:刚又想到 想请教john兄 您对转盘端jitter对後端da影响 07/08 17:16
16F:→ louis0407:的看法是? 是直接否定jitter这完意对声音的影响还是 07/08 17:16
17F:→ louis0407:针对cd压制品质对声音的影响在质疑?? 感谢 07/08 17:17
18F:推 padro:我特别强调载体材质差异 就是对louis兄所说的有疑问阿XD 07/08 19:54