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翻译并节录一个讨论串的内容 连结如下,题目是非营利游戏团队与动机。 里面提到大部分非营利游戏团队解散或无疾而终的原因,以及如何让一个游戏团队的菜鸟 融入团队。 Home >> Community >> Forums >> Software Engineering >> Online projects and motivation http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=575905 Corman GDNet+ Member since: 10/23/2001 From: Crown Point, IN, United States Posted - 7/4/2010 11:50:49 PM Sad news is that I see nearly 90%+ (my own personal stats, this can truely be all over the place) of non-paid/voulenteer development in games end up like this over and over again until even the very talented and hard working parties are jaded beyond belief (myself included over past projects). And is usually broken down like this: 经过我自己的统计,很遗憾的说,百分之九十的非营利/自愿游戏开发都终结於这种情形(人 员离开)直到有群很努力又充满狂热的天才出现.而且这些团队通常因为以下状况解散: 1. A large number of people under estimate the task(s) at hand and equally over estimate their own or other people skills to suceed or follow through with these tasks. 过於低估分派的工作,过份高估自己或其他人能持续完成(他们的)工作的技能. 2. Join a project believing a lot of tangible/end usable work has been done and as soon as they get access to the inner circle feel that every thing was just smoke and mirrors and is nothing more than just sugar coated talk. 决定加入前,以为一些繁杂/底层的工作已经被别人做完了.但是进入状况後才发现一堆事 情都还没具体成型. 3. Want to be part of something but feel that everyone else will teach them or carry them along to greatness. 想要被指导. 4. Everyone wants to be the idea guy/gal and getting in on the ground floor everyone pulls in a different direction or trys to inject their own personal goals in everything they actualy do. 都想做设计,使得每个人实做的方向都不一样. 5. Feels that they are only here to be the designer and drops the project when they feel the coders or artists (if any) are not doing anything or what they want. 都想做设计,但发现其他人(包含美术)不照他们的想法做事. 6. Are not aware of the large dead zone periods where there is nothing to show and jump ship feeling it is not moving at their pace. 丝毫感觉不到专案期限,以至於工作停留在原地. 7. View it as a personal elective that they do not have to do so they feel that any sort of procrastination is fine since any work they do is worth more than what they are getting in return (that is nothing). 因为专案没有回报,因此延迟没关系,作任何(其他的)事都好过於进行专案. 8. Like shinny new things and will move on to another project if it looks like it has more people interested or that it will go farther. 随意的跳槽到另一个比较有前景的专案. 9. Everyone is in different locations around the world and have drastically different schedules that do not aline with others so ant any given moment it feels like you are the only one doing any work. 成员分布在世界各地,而且也拥有不同的时程表.导致每个人似乎都独立运作. 10. Feel that they are indeed doing all the work as everyone else sits back and slave drives them for something they are giving freely of themselves to do. 觉得自己是唯一认真的人.其他人只会指挥分派工作. 11. Think different tasks depend on other tasks to be finished before they do their work (ex. "engine" must be finished before artist start creating content, etc.) 真的下去作之前都以为那部份要等别人先完成.(比如说引擎要先完成才能开始制作美术内 容) 12. Honestly do not know where to start for a good foundation and everyone scatters to different parts they believe are more important. 不知道从何处开始.或是随意抓取那些自认为重要的元件. 13. Do not like the coding style of everyone else and gives up on "princple". 仅因为原则否定其他人的写作风格. 14. Different levels of experience clash. 工作经验差距太大. 15. It was nothing more than an impulse moment and just kind of forget about it because it really did not mean that much to them in the first place. 专案的组成只是灵光一闪(即兴)的idea. 16. The person who started the project usually is the one who trys to take the leadership role even if their skill set is not fully up to par with managing a larger team and more times than not are not open to taking some one elses lead in return. 专案发起人总是想管理. 17. Do not want to take suggestions from the people with real experience or at least the ones who have tried a particular route and maybe even failed (I see the wheel re-invented over and over with wrong paths retaken just because people do not want to listen to honest advice out of spite). 不接受有经验人员的意见.(譬如说不要重新造轮子) 18. Some people are driven by what you can see and play with and sometimes if it does not get to that point soon enough the non-technical people usually drift away. 看到有成果能玩才会继续留下来,尤其是那些技术能力较低的成员. 19. More people worry about making engines than games or planning for a future of re-usability and expandability that more than likely even with success will not come. 只想制作一个好引擎.却导致专案无法完成. 20. Really are not into it more than to have a social group that they can brag about. 只是想获取名声. 21. Spend more time in idle planning and endless research for the "silver bullet" solution that nothing ever happens since they believe they have all the time they want. 花太多时间在研究银子弹(无法完成的技术方法).导致於什麽也没作. 22. Feel that no work can be done until they get more people or every "position" seat is filled. 只想等人员到齐才开始. 23. Hold out hopping to nab a professional to fix all their problems. 只想等个专家来帮他们解决问题. 24. Aim too high and never target a project with a subset of tasks that are best suited to the people at hand. 目标太高,而从未将专案解构为小工作,以至於每个人都没办法接下工作. 25. People just get dropped in with the basic feeling from others that they should know what they should do and work on right off the bat. 只是因为一个"其他人都该知道该怎麽作"想法(而发现其他人没有)而离开. 26. They never do any small team building projects to get used to everyone and have early sucesses. 从未参与小组工作或完成专案过. 27. Various age ranges and mental/physical maturity that may or may not be shared with others that causes clashes or misunderstandings do to how they talk or express themselves. 成员间年龄相差过大导致沟通不良,因此造成代沟或误解. 28. Ideas really are a dime a dozen and people become so inflexible to changing anything that they sabbotage what can be done for what they beleive should be done to the letter. 过份强调创意的不可侵犯性,导致专案没有弹性.(改变目标就是破坏信仰) 29. Everyone is a zealot over something, be it os, compiler, editor, art tools, or coding style and fight over thigns that really do not matter. 对於技术过於狂热,并互相争执那些(对专案)一点也不重要的事. 30. Just do not speak up and feel nothing is worth fighting over and just leave in silence never to be heard from again. 从未表达,而且再也听不到他的出现. This list is no where close to being exhaustive and could go on and on but is meant just to give a rough idea of some of the difficulties involved. So yeah, this is basically venting some frustrations I have come across and I am sure you and other have as well. There is no single solution or best pratice is this case since these sorts of groups are all over the spectrum. The only real solid advice is keep all these things in mind and understand what makes people tick and what they think and feel (like from the list above) and work to improve all the points even if it ends up being yourself and or your project itself. 这份清单可以不断变长,但只是粗略地提出一些团队会遇到的困难.基本上只是说明我曾经 遇过且我坚信其他团队必定会遇到的问题. 对於各式各样的团队而言,没有单一或最佳的解答. 唯一的方法就是全盘都考量,而且持续了解激励(或使他们失去动机)每个成员的要素. 持续有进展,即便那些都变成自己的工作.要不然就好好保护自己. Nihathrael Member since: 7/21/2010 From: Freising Posted - 7/21/2010 4:34:00 AM Joining a new project with an existing code base means working into a lot of code, this often seems like a big hurdle for especially fairly novice programmers to take. 加入一个已经有进行中专案的团队意思是有一堆程式码,对於那些真正的新手来说是一个 大挑战. It's the expectation of "I'm joining this new project and i'm going to change the world by doing it" which makes a lot of people leave quickly, when they see it's not going to happen. "期待加入新团队就能改变世界"的想法通常会导致离开. Most of the people still underestimate the work they have to do, even if you tell them it's going to be a lot, so don't worry to much about scaring them away. 面试的时候先恐吓新人,避免他(对成果)有过高的期待.(对工作则是过低.)即使会吓跑一 些人. Here are some counter measures that can help (again, in my experience): 一些建议: - Make clear to new people that working on a project takes a lot of time and is not always fun but even work sometimes 明白的告诉新人,工作会很多,而且大多时间没什麽乐趣. - Make them contribute their first 3 fixes through patches before you give them repository access (It won't bother them and it will help you keep the repo clear of unnecessary users) 至少三个更新之後才把Repository的权限放给新人. - Comment your code (yes it's that simple) 写注解. - Have a bug tracker so people can find themselves tasks easily (and most importantly, without relying on your help. Working autonomously feels great!) 使用错误追踪,让每个人都知道该负责的工作.(而不是老来问你要干麽.) - Let the new contributer choose on what he wants to work 让新人在工作清单上选择他想要进行的工作. - We have an in-code tutorial which takes you through the important classes. It's basically comments inside the code explaining what each portion of code does on a fairly high level and then says "To continue your journey, now check out xyz.file". It's a little adventure through the code if you will. A lot of new folks have found it quite helpful. 我们有一个程式码层级的新手教学.意思是透过注解让你了解这些注解的目的.与档案间的 连结.这很有帮助(译注:帮助了解专案,同时维持coding style) - Make sure you thank the contributer for his contributions! In open source world this is all they are going to get! So if someone supplies a patch, thank him for it. If he continually contributes, add him to the credits. I know this hard for us computer folks, but saying "Thank you!" really is a great motivation. 对於完成工作的成员表示肯定,公开的把他放在工作人员名单上. - Make them feel part of a team. Always talk in terms of "we are releasing a new version where we implemente a, b and c." "We have to tackle this new problem", etc. 工作像个团队,让团队持续跟上发布新版本的计画.让大伙知道问题被实际解决. - Create an IRC channel where you meet up with people regularly(this can be hard if you live in different time zones) and require regular contributers to join when they work on the game or even better always when they are online. Again this is a team building experience to everyone and you get to know each other fairly well. This will also help new people as if experienced contributers are online as often as possible, rather simple questions can be answered quickly instead of taking the new guy ages to figure out. 建立即时通讯的管道,更好的情况是随时都是上线的.让成员间多了解彼此.快速回答问题. -- "May the Balance be with U"(愿平衡与你同在) 视窗介面游戏设计教学,讨论,分享。欢迎来信。 视窗程式设计(Windows CLR Form)游戏架构设计(Game Application Framework) 游戏工具设计(Game App. Tool Design ) 电脑图学架构及研究(Computer Graphics) --



※ 发信站: 批踢踢实业坊(ptt.cc)
◆ From: 118.167.136.93
1F:推 dalireal:Push :) 08/05 21:29
※ 编辑: NDark 来自: 118.167.136.93 (08/05 21:40)
2F:推 whatzzz:超赞 很多我真的都遇到Orz... 08/05 21:43
3F:推 F23ko:其实..... 不管什麽非营利团队都一样,不一定是游戏..... 08/05 21:52
4F:→ F23ko:不是靠「薪水」维系住的团体通常很脆弱...... 08/05 21:53
5F:推 asleisureto:我们也是非商业性质的同人团队,这篇文列的一些问题也 08/05 22:22
6F:→ asleisureto:都有碰过...可是我们团队现在碰到的最大问题这篇文没 08/05 22:23
7F:→ asleisureto:列出来...就是游戏做出来後呢? 08/05 22:24
8F:→ asleisureto:那些众人唾弃的商业武侠三国OLG都有不小名气+收入 08/05 22:25
9F:→ asleisureto:可是同人游戏始终困死在小圈圈里(这情况也不只我们团) 08/05 22:25
10F:推 ddavid:你需要的是真正强大的品质(至少在特定一个方面),然後就 08/05 22:29
11F:→ ddavid:是依赖网路的行销(包括口耳相传),最後就是一点(可能很 08/05 22:30
12F:→ ddavid:大点)运气。 08/05 22:30
13F:→ ddavid:品质--如TYPE-MOON的剧本或东方超精彩的音乐跟弹幕,而且 08/05 22:31
14F:→ ddavid:要有很鲜明的特色。 08/05 22:32
15F:→ ddavid:行销--这就看手段了,反正要将游戏推出去绝对不是同人展 08/05 22:32
16F:→ ddavid:摆个摊愿者上鈎就够的,如果你很有野心的话。 08/05 22:33
17F:→ ddavid:运气--你什麽也不能做,但至少运气真的来时别漏掉。 08/05 22:34
18F:→ ddavid:不过这也要看做这个同人游戏一开始的初衷是什麽就是。如果 08/05 22:36
19F:→ ddavid:一开始就不是为了有野心要商业化什麽的,其实你有第二点的 08/05 22:36
20F:→ ddavid:一半大概就够了。 08/05 22:36
21F:推 asleisureto:其实我们游戏宣传的很凶(相较其他同人game而言) 08/05 22:36
22F:→ asleisureto:但仍是打不开来...其实我觉得同人在创意跟热情上远胜 08/05 22:38
23F:推 ddavid:所以那就看你要的是什麽了。对於一个没有野心的同人团体, 08/05 22:39
24F:→ asleisureto:商业那些万年OLG,可是说到打知名度就完全被电假的 08/05 22:39
25F:→ ddavid:困死小圈圈本来就是常态,因为本来就没想要离开。所以你想 08/05 22:39
26F:→ ddavid:要建立名气吸引人才转商业公司呢?还是想要把成果拿来当做 08/05 22:40
27F:→ ddavid:进入现有游戏公司的阶梯之一?或是你只是为了把自己创造的 08/05 22:41
28F:→ ddavid:世界让更多人看到? 08/05 22:41
29F:推 asleisureto:都有吧...野心也是有的 但再多野心仍需向现实低头 08/05 22:44
30F:→ asleisureto:我是觉得怎麽做游戏是个课题 但游戏完成後又是另个 08/05 22:45
31F:→ asleisureto:课题 不过感觉不多人探讨...(大部分都先死在前关了) 08/05 22:46
32F:推 ddavid:同人游戏的推销,我想是「赔钱也要让更多人看到」XD 08/05 22:55
33F:→ ddavid:毕竟名气还没建立起来就想着要赚钱是不切实际的。再来就是 08/05 22:55
34F:→ ddavid:要有一项非常非常鲜明的强项或特色,如果一个同人游戏就只 08/05 22:56
35F:→ ddavid:是个平均水准略好一点的游戏,那也是一下就被掩盖掉了,往 08/05 22:57
36F:→ ddavid:往不如某方面超强但其它项目略低的作品来得容易出名。 08/05 22:57
37F:推 ddavid:所以抓到你游戏的最强项,大言不惭地推销下去,让那些看了 08/05 23:01
38F:→ ddavid:好奇或不以为然的家伙有机会去碰到它,最後用实力证明你到 08/05 23:01
39F:→ ddavid:底是真的大言不惭还是真正的强猛。只要你让他们觉得是後者 08/05 23:03
40F:→ ddavid:你就有机会了XD 08/05 23:03
41F:推 whatzzz:整体制作水准上的提升吧 让人有"这是商业作"的错觉阿XD 08/05 23:22
42F:→ whatzzz:毕竟掏钱买真的是一回事... 08/05 23:23
43F:推 linct:非营利团队真的容易出现上述状况...... 08/05 23:44
44F:→ linct:我自己找的团队就几乎完全符合了(眼神死 08/05 23:44
45F:推 AmosYang:有笑有推 XD 08/06 10:32
※ 编辑: NDark 来自: 118.167.128.9 (08/06 21:18)
46F:推 hirabbitt:朝圣! 11/18 15:40







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