访谈全文中文逐字稿 Q1. The Cross-strait Trade in Services Agreement has become a contentious issue in Taiwan. In the past few days, for example, students have occupied the Legislative Yuan. Why do you think there is controversy over the agreement? Q1.两岸服贸在台湾已成为争议话题，像是最近这几天学生占领立法院 你认为服贸为何会存在争议? President Ma: In Taiwan, any matter that involves cross-strait relations will cause some degree of contention. Domestically, we have not yet reached a significant consensus on how we want to develop our relations with mainland China. The Trade in Services Agreement (TiSA) is part of the Cross-Straits Economic Co-operation Framework Agreement (ECFA) that we signed with the mainland four years ago. We had explained then that the ECFA is a big framework that would cover trade in services and goods, settlement of disputes, and economic co-operation. 马：在台湾，任何与两岸关系有关的事都会引发某种程度的争议 国内尚未就如何发展与中国的关系达成重要共识。 服贸是4年前我们与中国签订的ECFA的一部分 当时我们就解释过，ECFA是一个大型的架构 涵盖服务与商品贸易、争议和解以及经济合作 The current situation is caused mainly by a misunderstanding among the public that the TiSA was not put forth for public review. As a matter of fact, over the past year or so, the government has held 110 rounds of talks with 46 different sectors. But because most were small-scale, the public might not have known about them. At the same time, [relevant government agencies] have briefed the Legislative Yuan three times, but critics argue that the agreement would pose a major threat to Taiwan. For example, it would take away job opportunities. But the TiSA will not open Taiwan’s job market to mainland Chinese workers. Explicit restrictions are in place in Article 3 of the agreement. Then some people say that it would jeopardise Taiwan’s national security. In reality, Article 11 of the TiSA prescribes measures for exceptions, that is, restrictions could be imposed if it involved national security. Then there are others who say that the agreement showed disparity, with Taiwan opening more sub-sectors to the mainland than vice versa. This is not true either. Taiwan will be allowed access to 80 sub-sectors in mainland China. Many other sub-sectors have not been included in the TiSA because these had already been liberalised in 2001 [when the mainland joined the World Trade Organisation]. 目前的情况主要是因为大众误解，以为服贸没有经过公共审议 但事实上在过去这1年间，政府已经与46个不同的产业举行110轮的会谈 然而因为大多数的会谈规模偏小，民众可能不晓得 同时相关的政府部会也三度在立法院发表简报 但批评者却指称服贸会对台湾造成重大威胁，例如会夺走就业机会 但服贸并不会向中国劳工开放台湾的就业市场 这在服贸的第三条有明确禁止 然後有些人说，服贸会危及台湾的国家安全 事实上，服贸的第11条有规定例外措施 那就是当涉及国安时可以加以禁止 然後其他人又说服贸是不对等的开放 台湾向中国开放的产业比较多，这是不正确的 中国向台湾开放的产业共有80项 还有许多产业没有被列入服贸当中 这是因为当中国在2001年加入WTO时就已经开放了 After the past several months of clarification, the true picture has become very clear. The current situation has developed because of a dispute that has arisen in the Legislative Yuan during deliberations over the TiSA. Ongoing disputes between the two major political parties have led to this situation. The best solution is to return to the original consensus. I believe there is a chance that the issue could then be resolved. 经过几个月的澄清後，真相已经变得非常清楚了 会演变成目前的状况，是因为立法院内部在审议服贸时产生了争议 两党间的争端才导致了现在的局面 而最好的解决办法是回归原来的共识 我相信有机会解决这个争议 Q2. What efforts will the government make to address the concerns of the people? Q2.为了解决人民的疑虑，政府会怎麽做? President Ma: Last October, negotiations held between the ruling and opposition parties concluded that the TiSA would be subject to an item-by-item review and vote. The government too agreed with this approach. However, public hearings on the TiSA took more than four months, causing a lengthy delay. The different parties were concerned that this might cause misgivings in the international community and wanted to speed up the process. 马：去年十月，朝野协商决议服贸必须逐条审查与表决，政府也同意这个做法 但是服贸公听会开了4个多月，时间拖太久 双方都担心这可能会引起国际社会的疑虑，希望程序可以加速进行 Since the debate began on March 10th, there have been many disagreements. When Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) members were presiding over the meeting, they did not allow Kuomintang (KMT) members to express their views. When KMT members were presiding, DPP members occupied the podium. So eventually, KMT legislators decided that they would follow the regulations and deem the review to have been completed. I believe that such disputes concerning legislative review should be resolved through the Legislature’s internal negotiation mechanism. This would allow the review to proceed as originally planned. 自从三月十日爆发争议以来，就出现了很多歧异 当民进党主持会议时，不准国民党党员表达他们的意见 换国民党主持时，民进党又占据了讲台 所以最後国民党议员决定，按照法规来，视同已经完成立法院审查 我相信像这样和立法审查有关的争议，依该透过立法院内部协商机制来解决 如此一来审查可以照原先的规画进行 Q3. Are there differing opinions of the TiSA within the Kuomintang? Q3.国民党内部对於服贸是否存在不同的意见? President Ma: The KMT holds a unanimous view internally but differs greatly from the opposition. 马：国民党内部看法一致，但和反对党大相迳庭。 Q4. Some people say that Wang Jin-pyng has made no effort to push for the passage of the TiSA. Do you agree? Q4.有些人说王金平在推动通过服贸上没有出力，你同意吗? President Ma: The KMT legislative caucus fully supports the TiSA. We can tell from the meeting convened on March 18th. Because Wang is President of the Legislative Yuan, he has to maintain a transcendent stance on all issues. Of course he wants the TiSA to be passed. He has in the past openly expressed support for the agreement. However, the procedure requires negotiations between the ruling and opposition parties. I think the best way forward is through internal legislative negotiation. Similar disagreements have occurred in the past and have eventually been resolved. When we signed the ECFA four years ago, the Legislature was the scene of fisticuffs. Some people were injured and sent for emergency treatment. Therefore, I hope that people can remain calm and find a solution to the issue. I believe that this can be resolved. 马：国民党在立法院的党团全力支持服贸 从3月18日召开的会议就可见一斑 因为王金平身为立法院院长，在所有议题上他都必须保持超然立场 当然他也希望服贸能通过。以前他也曾公开表达对服贸的支持 不过依照程序，朝野两党必须进行协商 我认为最好的方法是透过内部立法协商 过去也曾发生过类似的歧异，最终都顺利化解 4年前签ECFA时，立法院打成一团，有些人受了伤，被送医急救 因此我希望大家能保持冷静，找出解决之道 我相信这是可以化解的 Q5. If the TiSA is not ratified soon, how will it impact Taiwan’s trade relations with other countries and with mainland China? Q5. 如果服贸不赶快通过 会对台湾与其他国家、与中国的贸易关系带来怎样的影响? President Ma: If the TiSA is not ratified or if it has to be renegotiated, it could have serious consequences and be detrimental to Taiwan’s interests. External trade accounts for 70% of Taiwan’s economic growth. Taiwan has long performed well in external trade, but in the past ten years or so, countries around the world have signed free-trade agreements (FTA). Many countries want to do business with Taiwan, but when it comes to signing a FTA with us, they become hesitant, because of our diplomatic predicament. 马：如果服贸不通过，或是必须重新协商 可能会带来严重的後果，危及台湾的利益 对外贸易约占台湾经济成长的70%，海外贸易长期以来一直是台湾的强项 但是大概最近10年，世界各国都开始签自由贸易协定FTA 很多国家想和台湾做生意，但是一谈到签FTA就退缩 这都是因为我们的外交困境 We managed to sign the ECFA with mainland China four years ago, which made it possible for us to sign an investment arrangement with Japan and economic co-operation agreements (ECA) with New Zealand and Singapore. Our international space has begun to expand. We also want to pursue similar deals with the United States and the European Union, and join the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) and the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP). However, if the TiSA is not passed, it would affect our signing of a trade in goods agreement with mainland China. As well, the international community would find it odd that Taiwan, while voicing an interest in joining in regional economic integration, is stalling domestically because of procedural issues. Our sincerity and determination would be questioned. Especially, if after signing the deal with the mainland, we then reverse course, we would no longer be creditable. We might be regarded as an unreliable trade partner. This would be most unfavourable as regards our international participation. 4年前我们成功地和中国签了ECFA 让我们有可能和日本签投资协议，和纽西兰、新加坡签经济合作协议(ECA) 我们在国际间的活动空间开始扩大 我们也想和美国、欧盟达成类似的协议，也想加入TPP和RCEP 但是不通过服贸，就会影响和中国的货贸 国际社会也会觉得奇怪 台湾一边说想加入区域经济整合，但国内却因为程序问题一再拖沓。 我们的诚意和决心都会受到质疑 尤其是如果与中国签了协议又反悔，我们就再也没有信用可言 我们可能会被认为是不可靠的贸易夥伴 这在国际参与方面对我们最不利 Q6. Do you plan to meet with mainland Chinese leader Xi Jinping? Q6.有打算和中国领导人习近平见面吗? President Ma: I have always maintained an open mind. Last year, we suggested that we could arrange a meeting at the APEC summit so we could avoid the use of official titles and because of venue concerns. The APEC summit is a custom-made forum, as participants represent not countries but economies. They are not addressed as presidents or premiers, but as leaders. The plan was devised long ago, and put in place over 20 years ago to avoid such political concerns. I thought that it would be a good opportunity and the people of Taiwan were very supportive of this idea. However, mainland China does not want the leaders of the two sides of the Taiwan Strait to meet at an international event. We do not have an answer at this time. We hope that should an opportunity arise, we could create appropriate conditions and perhaps again consider it. As of now, we do not have another plan. 马：我向来保持开放心态。去年我们曾提议可以在APEC峰会上安排会面 如此即可避免使用正式头衔，以及会面场合的疑虑 APEC峰会的出席资格是依经济体而非国家 不会以总统或总理来称呼出席代表，而是以领袖称之 这个安排已经存在很久了，20多年前就已经为了避免类似的政治顾虑而提出 我认为这会是个好机会，台湾人民也非常支持这个想法 不过中国并不希望两岸领导人在国际会议上见面 这次我们还没有答案 我们希望能有这个机会 我们可以安排适当的场合，也许可以再次考虑 但以目前而言，我们没有其他计画 -- 自制太阳花脸书封面相片两张，无版权问题，欢迎自取分享 http://imgur.com/rGwq2uV,jVfvocY http://imgur.com/rGwq2uV,jVfvocY#1 --

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