※ 引述《kimichen (kimi)》之铭言： : I read something about "native" speakers and would like to share with you. : Many Taiwanese people like to refer to people who are from English speaking : countries as "native" English speakers. The term "native English speakers" is commonly used in countries where English is the [official/dominant] language. : Actually this word is very "tricky". Let me put it this way. Have you ever : thought that you are a native Mandarin speaker? Probably very rarely. However, to those whose mother tongue is not Mandarin Chinese, people who speak Mandarin Chinese as their first language are considered native Mandarin speakers. : From the articles I read, it suggests us using "English as first language : speakers" instead of "native speaker". The proposed term is too long and redundant. Further, by simply employing a new term, it will not make you a native or less non-native. : "Native" is a legacy of "colonist : eras". Because by using this word, no matter how good your English is. You : would be always non-native. What defines a person's linguistic "nativeness"? Among many other things, it's about how well you command the language in question, in terms of seeing the world through that language. Language to an extent determines mind and influences a person's world view, and vice versa. You also need to have a solid grasp of the cultural/historical/social context in which that language is used/developed and has been shaped. I've seen persons whose mother tongues are not Mandarin Chinese speak the language as if it were their first. I don't see the problem referring them as "native Mandarin speakers." Natalie Portman is a native English speaker, yet the first language she learnt at home was Hebrew. : It is kind of stupid to exlude ourselves and give : a person from an English speaking country superiority over us regardless of : his real English ability. By this statement, you seem to be implicitly stating that "native [English] speakers are not allowed to make grammatical/ linguistic mistakes; and once they have made such a mistake, they lose their credibility (or linguistic capital) of being native [English] speakers." Yet, even among the so-called "native English speakers", contestations with regards to language usages (in the broadest sense) are common and can sometimes be fierce. Further, I do not agree with the use of "superiority" here and the application of the idea of colonialism, for you and your ancestors were never colonized by the British empire: China was never a colony; with regards to the case of Taiwan, it was colonised by Japan (and arguably, China, depending on how you want to look at the issue). The whole issue here is not about whether "native" English speakers are superior to persons of ESL (or, to put another way, it's not about whether persons of ESL are inferior to "native" English speakers). Do you think a person can lose his/her essence--in this case, being a native English speaker--simply by committing linguistic errors? "Real English ability" is a rather confusing expression. What do yo mean by "real"? And how do you measure it, in relative of and in terms of what? If you committ a grammatical/linguistic error when you speak/ write in Mandarin Chinese, does that jeopardize your status as a native Mandarin speaker? -- "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, "It means just what I choose it to mean--neither more or less." "The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean different things." "The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master--that's all." --

※ 发信站: 批踢踢实业坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From: 74.98.239.53 ※ 编辑: finavir 来自: 74.98.239.53 (02/02 14:40) ※ 编辑: finavir 来自: 74.98.239.53 (02/02 14:42)