※ 引述《iambeetle (beetle)》之铭言： : I assume that you prefer me to reply you in English, so I would it. : 我假设你想要我用英文回复你，我可以。 : But I notice that there might be some people don't feel comfortable : 但是我知道可能有一部分人不太适应读一大篇英文， : reading a whole brunch of English. : Therefore I will make it into Chinese as well. : 所以我也会把它翻译称中文， 这样也比较清楚一点。 : Just for the sake of clearness. : ------------------------ : At first, I was quite shock that how could you be so cocky and absolute. : 刚开始，我很惊讶你为甚麽可以这麽自大和绝对化自己想法。 : However, I read it again and I think I know the reason why. : 但是我又读了一边以後，我觉得我知道为甚麽了。 : You are either heavily brianwashed, or you knows basically nothing. : 你要不然是完全被洗脑了，就是根本甚麽都不知道。 : I am not gonna argure with you based on hisotry, since I have said that : history is not accurate. : 我不会跟你理论历史，因为我已经说过历史其实本来就不准确。 : However, I would like to talk about it based on your logic. : 但是我会将你的逻辑来讨论。 : ※ 引述《lerudit (l'Erudit)》之铭言： : : Are you going to talk about the history or the future? : : It is not very difficult to clarify it. : It's very hard to clarfy it, i would say. : 其实，我会说，历史是很难被认证的。 : Not only the history of P.R.China and Taiwan, but also the world history, : has always been argued over decades. : 不只是中国和台湾的历史，就连世界历史，这麽久以来一直被争论着。 : I was surprised that it seems so easy to solve to you. : 我很惊讶你会觉得对於历史问题这麽容易就可以解决。 : Then what are those historians and professors doing for such a long time? : slacking off? (lol) : 如果是这样，那麽这麽久以来，这麽多的历史学家和教授都在做些甚麽？ : 偷懒吗？ （笑） : : In the past, for most of the time, Taiwan has been independently existant : : in the world. : : There were Dutch, Koxinga, Chin, Japanese and Chiang ever controlling Taiwan. : : However, only the last two can fully control most of Taiwan. : : (Remember, 2/3 of Taiwan is mountains. The first reliable sea level : : determination was by Japanese.) : : Chinese did build something in Taiwan, such as railway; however, at the same : : time, they were removing railway off from their country. : : Everybody knows Taiwan was ceded to Japan in 1895. : : I don't like Chinese always arguing for price or bargain; : : I don't like Chinese always leaving rubbish everywhere; : : If you Chinese do want to buy something, pay for it or go away. : : If you Chinese do decide to give up something, don't go to ask it back someday. : : Else, don't give up then. : : What do you think we Taiwanese are? : Are you dissing Chinese people here? Where is your hatred from? : 你现在是在针对中国百姓吗？你对中国普通百姓的憎恨是怎麽来的？ : What is wrong with bargaining? That is a part of culture. : 讲价有甚麽不好的？这甚至是文化的一部分。 : And your stereotype is very bad. There are clean and beatiful cities in China. : 你对中国的印象真的很差，虽然我不知道是哪里来的。 : 中国也有很多漂亮而且干净的城市。 我相信 但同时世界十大污染城市 中国也有七个 source: CNN http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/04/27/eyeonchina. environment/index.html 当然你也可以怀疑CNN对中国的公正性 : If you want to talk about politics, don't blame people. : 如果你是要讲政府和政治，那就不要把怪罪到百姓人民身上。 : : Yes, the history has been interpreted very differently.. : : It is not difficult to clarify, else they won't be able to do any interpreting. : : If you are talking about 'believe' or 'not believe', then we are at different : : level. : : I would talk about 'consideration', 'evidences' and 'research'. : : I may still believe or not believe something, but would think of the reasons. : Regarding to what you said above, : 对於你上面所说的， : I think you have made a big mistake here. : 我觉得你犯了一个大错误。 : The fact that History can be interpreted doesn't mean that history : can be interpreted correctly. : 历史可以被理解这事实并不代表历史一定可以被 正确 理解。 : The history itself is ambiguous, if you force to interprete it one-way only, : there must be bias inyour interpretation. : 历史本来就是很多面化和很模糊（不好意思我真的不知道怎麽翻译ambiguous) : ，如果你硬是要单一化的理解历史，那你的理解一定会有偏见。 : And I don't understand that you said you would talk about "considerations", : "evidance" and "research", because you have not. : 我不明白你为甚麽说你会讲"considerations", "evidance" 和 "research"， : 因为很明显你并没有。 : And if you have done your research, I am sure that you won't get so cocky : anymore. Because there are a lot of sides and bias in the source. : It overwhelms you. : 如果你有做研究的话，那我敢保证你不会再这麽自大。 因为当你在找资料的时候， : 你会发现有很多不同的版本和偏见，立场。 你根本不能应付过来。 : : I suggest you just go away and talk to your president then. : : If he agrees to give up to invade Taiwan or any attacks, we will not have : : to buy any weapons from the US. : : Mr Chinese, we are quite happily living here. If there is any difficulty, : : that is basically by you, or your government. : First of all, I don't like your words "invade" and "attacks", : 首先，我很不喜欢你的字眼“侵略”和“攻击”， : because we have not invaded or attacked Taiwan. : 因为我们并没有“侵略”或“攻击”台湾。 : The fact is we even suggest peace. Also, at least until now, : we haven't started a war. : 我们甚至提倡和平，并且到现在为之，我们并没有发起战争。 拿着700颗飞弹对着人 然後说提倡和平 就像是拿着一把刀架在人家脖子上 然後说我没要动手 同样的问题你可以问问日本人或是南韩人 : But I would like to ask you one question. : 但是我想问你一个问题， : Althought Taiwan has bought weapons from the US, do you think those weapon : can protect you? Are they even competitive? : 就算台湾有跟美国买武器，你觉得它们真的有用吗？真的能招架得住？ 要战台湾不会赢的 大家都清楚 台湾军队烂的很 但是不买 难道就让解放军直接开坦克进台北毫无招架之力? 让700颗飞弹落在台湾 一颗也挡不下来 但是拿个比喻 你会因为世界盃要遇到巴西队就不踢了 直接0-3任人宰割吗? : The US sells you weapons for money. : As long as they gets money, they are happy doing it. : 美国是为了赚钱才卖给你武器。 只要它们能转到钱，它们就开心了。 : : No. If I ask a question: : : Do you call 'my dearest' to every girl? : : Then, do you think they will feel you are friendly if you do that? : : Get your brain geared up, please, Mr Chinese. : I don't think your example helps you. : 我并不觉得你得例子有任何用处。 : It makes non-sense. : 这个例子根本就不是在说同样的东西， 事实上，这例子我根本不能理解。 : Do we call "my dearest" to every girl? No, we don't. : 我们真的都叫女生“my dearest”吗？根本不是。 : By the way, I have a name for you to call. No need to call me "Mr. Chinese" : 顺便说一下，我有名字，你不用一直叫我“Mr. Chinese”. : : If you are governed by foreigner, such as japanese or whatever, I will accept : : this excuse. Unfortunately, you are governed by Chinese government, which is : : even called 'People's Government'. : : Which government else is 'more of people' than yours? : : You got many political parties meeting every year or every day in so grand : : hall, and never heard they are arguing for anything. Everything agreed 99%. : : How can we believe that everything is due to the government but not the people. : : By the way, if you can take off the 'People' on the title, and go to argue : : or protesst in your parliament, I will believe what you said. OK? : : I am not laughing at you. : : Democracy is a very good status, but you can not get it for free. : : Do something for your own country, for your neighbour's sakes. : Chinese people supports the government when it is doing the right thing. : 中国人民在中国政府做正确的事情的时候，就支持中国政府。 我相信这点 但做不正确事情的时候 也似乎没什麽办法 : Till now, for the most of the part, Chinese government is helping the : 到现在为之，中国政府的确在帮助中国发展，所以我们支持。 中国的经济发展速度目前的确无庸置疑 : country to develop. Therefore we support it. : Over 85% of people support the current goverment in China. : 超过百分之85的人民支持自己的政府。 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^可以请问一下资料出处吗 不会是新华社吧 : Chinese government fulfills Chinese people's demand. : 中国政府的确实现了很多中国人民的目标。 : What about your government? : If you are so happy about your government, answer the question. : 如果你是这麽支持自己的政府，那你告诉我， : What is the percentage that people support the curent govenment? : 台湾现任政府民意指数多少？ 很差 的确很差 不过做不好就靠选举换人换党 我想"政府" 跟"执政党"可以是两回事 人民对执政党不满 但是不代表想换"政府" 假如那是你的暗示 我不敢说台湾的民主举机制成熟 但是他的确是相对下的可以被台湾人接受 另外回你的推文 台湾政府要洗脑台湾民众 在以前的确是很容易 报禁党禁都是 现在...? 媒体自由 言论自由已经是自由到不像话的地步了 至少台湾这边 要接收世界各种资讯不会有限制 政府不敢在网路上设限 不会莫名其妙抓 所谓异议份子 你要统要独 都可以发表自己意见 要用政府洗脑这个字眼 显然还差的远 : After all, I am not saying Chinese government always do the right thing. : 但是，说到底，我并不是在说中国政府一直都是很正确的。 : There are evil sides of the government too. Just like any other government. : 中国政府也有做一些不好的事情，就像所有国家的政府一样。 : But I have a piece of advice for you. : 但是我想要给你一个建议， : Put down your pride. Stop being so cocky, you will learn more. : 收起你的骄傲和自大心。 要是你谦虚一点，你可以学到更多东西。 看完您两篇大作 第一篇感觉您还理性 至少就我认识的大陆人来说 看完这篇 又觉得很失望 因为你的说法 大概跟中国政府官方说法大同小异 没什麽新意 在加拿大网路应该没什麽限制 可以多看看台湾这边的新闻 blog bbs 看看台湾人是怎麽想的 还有台湾人是不是真的天真地被政府洗脑 --

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