I assume that you prefer me to reply you in English, so I would it. 我假设你想要我用英文回复你，我可以。 But I notice that there might be some people don't feel comfortable 但是我知道可能有一部分人不太适应读一大篇英文， reading a whole brunch of English. Therefore I will make it into Chinese as well. 所以我也会把它翻译称中文， 这样也比较清楚一点。 Just for the sake of clearness. ------------------------ At first, I was quite shock that how could you be so cocky and absolute. 刚开始，我很惊讶你为甚麽可以这麽自大和绝对化自己想法。 However, I read it again and I think I know the reason why. 但是我又读了一边以後，我觉得我知道为甚麽了。 You are either heavily brianwashed, or you knows basically nothing. 你要不然是完全被洗脑了，就是根本甚麽都不知道。 I am not gonna argure with you based on hisotry, since I have said that history is not accurate. 我不会跟你理论历史，因为我已经说过历史其实本来就不准确。 However, I would like to talk about it based on your logic. 但是我会将你的逻辑来讨论。 ※ 引述《lerudit (l'Erudit)》之铭言： : ※ 引述《iambeetle (beetle)》之铭言： : : 先说好了。。。我是中国人，就是“大陆人”，家乡是在广东。。。 : : 但是已经到Canada三年多了。。。 : : 我同意说中国政府一直有对中国人民洗脑说台湾是中国的一部分， : : 而且很大部分中国人也认为台湾“回归”是早晚的事情。。。 : : 我觉得这个真的很难说清楚，不是吗。。？ : Are you going to talk about the history or the future? : It is not very difficult to clarify it. It's very hard to clarfy it, i would say. 其实，我会说，历史是很难被认证的。 Not only the history of P.R.China and Taiwan, but also the world history, has always been argued over decades. 不只是中国和台湾的历史，就连世界历史，这麽久以来一直被争论着。 I was surprised that it seems so easy to solve to you. 我很惊讶你会觉得对於历史问题这麽容易就可以解决。 Then what are those historians and professors doing for such a long time? slacking off? (lol) 如果是这样，那麽这麽久以来，这麽多的历史学家和教授都在做些甚麽？ 偷懒吗？ （笑） : In the past, for most of the time, Taiwan has been independently existant : in the world. : There were Dutch, Koxinga, Chin, Japanese and Chiang ever controlling Taiwan. : However, only the last two can fully control most of Taiwan. : (Remember, 2/3 of Taiwan is mountains. The first reliable sea level : determination was by Japanese.) : Chinese did build something in Taiwan, such as railway; however, at the same : time, they were removing railway off from their country. : Everybody knows Taiwan was ceded to Japan in 1895. : I don't like Chinese always arguing for price or bargain; : I don't like Chinese always leaving rubbish everywhere; : If you Chinese do want to buy something, pay for it or go away. : If you Chinese do decide to give up something, don't go to ask it back someday. : Else, don't give up then. : What do you think we Taiwanese are? Are you dissing Chinese people here? Where is your hatred from? 你现在是在针对中国百姓吗？你对中国普通百姓的憎恨是怎麽来的？ What is wrong with bargaining? That is a part of culture. 讲价有甚麽不好的？这甚至是文化的一部分。 And your stereotype is very bad. There are clean and beatiful cities in China. 你对中国的印象真的很差，虽然我不知道是哪里来的。 中国也有很多漂亮而且干净的城市。 If you want to talk about politics, don't blame people. 如果你是要讲政府和政治，那就不要把怪罪到百姓人民身上。 : : 因为历史这东西，本来就很有偏见， : : 两个政府都尽量把历史修改到有利於自己的一边， : : 所以我个人是完全不相信历史。。。 : Yes, the history has been interpreted very differently.. : It is not difficult to clarify, else they won't be able to do any interpreting. : If you are talking about 'believe' or 'not believe', then we are at different : level. : I would talk about 'consideration', 'evidences' and 'research'. : I may still believe or not believe something, but would think of the reasons. Regarding to what you said above, 对於你上面所说的， I think you have made a big mistake here. 我觉得你犯了一个大错误。 The fact that History can be interpreted doesn't mean that history can be interpreted correctly. 历史可以被理解这事实并不代表历史一定可以被 正确 理解。 The history itself is ambiguous, if you force to interprete it one-way only, there must be bias inyour interpretation. 历史本来就是很多面化和很模糊（不好意思我真的不知道怎麽翻译ambiguous) ，如果你硬是要单一化的理解历史，那你的理解一定会有偏见。 And I don't understand that you said you would talk about "considerations", "evidance" and "research", because you have not. 我不明白你为甚麽说你会讲"considerations", "evidance" 和 "research"， 因为很明显你并没有。 And if you have done your research, I am sure that you won't get so cocky anymore. Because there are a lot of sides and bias in the source. It overwhelms you. 如果你有做研究的话，那我敢保证你不会再这麽自大。 因为当你在找资料的时候， 你会发现有很多不同的版本和偏见，立场。 你根本不能应付过来。 : : 对於台湾和中国到底是甚麽关系，我也是中立。 : : 完全没有偏任何一边，我觉得只要两边不要争，不要有矛盾，只要结果是好的就好了。 : : 我在vancouver有很多台湾朋友，除非是我最亲的朋友，我都很少跟他们谈到政治问题， : : 因为这些东西，既然已经被洗脑了，那就不是一下子可以说服的。。。 : : 我唯一觉得不爽的是美国一直在两岸关系里面乱弄，所以可以在里面赚到钱。。。 : : 我倒是觉得这样太小人了。。。 : I suggest you just go away and talk to your president then. : If he agrees to give up to invade Taiwan or any attacks, we will not have : to buy any weapons from the US. : Mr Chinese, we are quite happily living here. If there is any difficulty, : that is basically by you, or your government. First of all, I don't like your words "invade" and "attacks", 首先，我很不喜欢你的字眼“侵略”和“攻击”， because we have not invaded or attacked Taiwan. 因为我们并没有“侵略”或“攻击”台湾。 The fact is we even suggest peace. Also, at least until now, we haven't started a war. 我们甚至提倡和平，并且到现在为之，我们并没有发起战争。 But I would like to ask you one question. 但是我想问你一个问题， Althought Taiwan has bought weapons from the US, do you think those weapon can protect you? Are they even competitive? 就算台湾有跟美国买武器，你觉得它们真的有用吗？真的能招架得住？ The US sells you weapons for money. As long as they gets money, they are happy doing it. 美国是为了赚钱才卖给你武器。 只要它们能转到钱，它们就开心了。 : : 但是有一点我想说啦， : : 我记得我以前的教科书，都以“同胞”称做台湾是没有错， : : 我觉得这算是善意吧。。。 : No. If I ask a question: : Do you call 'my dearest' to every girl? : Then, do you think they will feel you are friendly if you do that? : Get your brain geared up, please, Mr Chinese. I don't think your example helps you. 我并不觉得你得例子有任何用处。 It makes non-sense. 这个例子根本就不是在说同样的东西， 事实上，这例子我根本不能理解。 Do we call "my dearest" to every girl? No, we don't. 我们真的都叫女生“my dearest”吗？根本不是。 By the way, I have a name for you to call. No need to call me "Mr. Chinese" 顺便说一下，我有名字，你不用一直叫我“Mr. Chinese”. : : 但是有时候我上PTT看到很多取笑大陆人的东西。。。 : : 心里面是有点不舒服，因为感觉有些人好像有点讨厌大陆人。。。 : : 而且里面取笑的都很多是stereotype，我看了都觉得很无里头。。。 : : 我心里面是希望这都是小部分人吧。。。。 : : 因为我的台湾朋友们都对我好好，而且他们都会说，“你感觉不像大陆人耶” : : 我觉得这可能是台湾人对大陆人也不怎麽了解吧。。。 : : 要是真能象交朋友一样了解对方的话，其实差异，也不会很多。 : : 如果是错，都是政府的错，普通百姓是无辜的吧。。。 : If you are governed by foreigner, such as japanese or whatever, I will accept : this excuse. Unfortunately, you are governed by Chinese government, which is : even called 'People's Government'. : Which government else is 'more of people' than yours? : You got many political parties meeting every year or every day in so grand : hall, and never heard they are arguing for anything. Everything agreed 99%. : How can we believe that everything is due to the government but not the people. : By the way, if you can take off the 'People' on the title, and go to argue : or protesst in your parliament, I will believe what you said. OK? : I am not laughing at you. : Democracy is a very good status, but you can not get it for free. : Do something for your own country, for your neighbour's sakes. Chinese people supports the government when it is doing the right thing. 中国人民在中国政府做正确的事情的时候，就支持中国政府。 Till now, for the most of the part, Chinese government is helping the 到现在为之，中国政府的确在帮助中国发展，所以我们支持。 country to develop. Therefore we support it. Over 85% of people support the current goverment in China. 超过百分之85的人民支持自己的政府。 Chinese government fulfills Chinese people's demand. 中国政府的确实现了很多中国人民的目标。 What about your government? If you are so happy about your government, answer the question. 如果你是这麽支持自己的政府，那你告诉我， What is the percentage that people support the curent govenment? 台湾现任政府民意指数多少？ After all, I am not saying Chinese government always do the right thing. 但是，说到底，我并不是在说中国政府一直都是很正确的。 There are evil sides of the government too. Just like any other government. 中国政府也有做一些不好的事情，就像所有国家的政府一样。 But I have a piece of advice for you. 但是我想要给你一个建议， Put down your pride. Stop being so cocky, you will learn more. 收起你的骄傲和自大心。 要是你谦虚一点，你可以学到更多东西。 -- ╭────────────────────────────────╮ │╭──╮ ╭╮ ╭──╮ ╭╮ beetle @│ ││ │╭─╮ ╰╯╭══╮│ │ ╭─╮ ╰╯╭─╮ ╭─╮│ │╠══╣║ ║ ╫ ║ ╰──╯║ ║ ║ ║ ║ ║ ║ ║ ║│ │║ ║║ ║ ║ ║ ╰──╯ ║ ║ ║ ╰─╯ ║ ║│.org ╰────────────────────────────────╯ --

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