作者df93 (人生如梦,梦如人生)
看板Christianity
标题[讨论] 到底什麽比较大?
时间Thu Jul 31 12:09:30 2025
根据林前14,真正该追求的应该是prophecy。但是,很不幸的,伟大的和合本把这个词翻
译成为『预言』(因为那是灵恩运动兴起的年代),所以误导了整个华人基督教。认为
prophecy是搞『猜明牌』,『气象预报』,『买什麽股票会赚钱』这类东西。
所以,我抓了些资料,用翻译机器人(勉强能用,就偷懒了)转成中文给大家看:
Prophesy (4395)(propheteuo from pró = before or forth + phemí = tell)
means literally to tell forth and can mean to speak forth God's message,
(having been taught of God). The idea is speaking with the help of divine
inspiration to proclaim what God wants to make known. In other contexts to
prophesy means to speak under inspiration and foretell future events. Its
most prominent use is in connection with the oracles at places like Delphi.
Typically, a person would ask a question of the gods and receive a cryptic
answer from the female mouthpiece of the deities. This answer would then be
completed and interpreted by the men who specialized in that task. Prophēteu
ō in this context meant “explain a message from the gods in response to a
client’s question.”
预言 (4395) (propheteuo 源自 pró = 在…之前或向前 + phemí = 告诉) 的字面意思
是“告诉”,也可以指说出上帝的信息(在接受上帝的教导後)。其意义是在神圣启示的
帮助下宣告上帝想要告知的事。在其他脉络中,预言是指在灵感的指引下说话,预示未来
事件。其最突出的用途与德尔菲等地的神谕有关。通常情况下,人们会向神灵提问,并从
神灵的女性代言人那里得到神秘的答案。然後,这个答案会由专门从事这项任务的男性进
行补充和解读。 Prophēteuō 在这种情况下的意思是「根据来访者的问题解释来自神灵
的信息」。
C. They do proclaim the truths of the gospel sometimes in predictive ways
(cf. Acts 11:27–28; 20:23; 21:10–11), but this is not the primary focus.
Prophesying in I Corinthians is basically communicating the gospel (cf. 1 Cor
14:24, 39).
D. They are the Spirit’s contemporary means of revealing the contemporary
and practical applications of God’s truth to each new situation, culture, or
time period (cf. 1 Cor. 14:3).
C. 他们有时确实以预言的方式宣告福音的真理(参考使徒行传11:27-28;20:23;
21:10-11),但这并不是主要的焦点。在哥林多前书中,预言基本上是在传达福音(参考
哥林多前书14:24, 39)。
D. 他们是圣灵用来揭示神的真理在当代和实际中应用於每个新情况、文化或时代的工具
(参考哥林多前书14:3)。
根据这些西方解经大师的看法,prophecy真正的目的是『在神圣启示的帮助下宣告上帝想
要告知的事』,『预示未来事件』只是其中的一部分。所以,prophecy的目的是『圣灵用
来揭示神的真理在当代和实际中应用於每个新情况、文化或时代』。或者,就是新约圣经
里面的Rehma的话(不是Logos)~当然,有些解经传统会认为rehma=logos,先不谈。
或者,简单的说,就是圣灵看见教会有某种的需要,问题需要解决,在聚会中推动某一位
信徒在圣灵的带领之下,讲出能够解决该需要或问题的话。这明显的:1)不是现在所谓
『照稿念的讲道』(我也上过所谓『释经讲道学』的课),2)当然要比在『没有翻译』
的情况下『对着空气讲废话』的方言要高太多了。
所以,若非真正了解prophecy的原意,就不会了解为什麽保罗在这里把两者进行比较,然
後高举prophecy,贬低方言。
当然,如果根据『以经解经』的原则,仅仅参考和合本的『(错误)译文』,根据华人基
督教普遍的神学水平,说不定会搞出:算命>外国话的荒谬结论,也是大有可能的。:P
最後:『做先知讲道』事实上也是一个很差的翻译就是了~~~~
再提供一些西方大师对於『对神讲方言』的解释(14:2):
One who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one
understands - The fact that no one understands (the verb is akouo which
primarily means to hear but in this context describes inner comprehension, cf
similar meaning in Mk 4:33+, Gal 4:21+) underscores the fact that the one who
speaks in a tongue is not speaking to men. They can hear him speaking but it
makes no sense to them. The point in this passage is that no one understands
the language the person is speaking. And in the same way the words he speaks
are mysteries or unknown to the hearer because they are not interpreted (see
spiritual gift of interpreting tongues). They are not "mysterious ecstatic
utterances!" In sum, the fact that what he says is unintelligible to others
emphasizes that tongues are inferior to prophecy which Paul will go on to
further explain in the following verses.
说方言的,原不是对人说话,乃是对神说话,因为没有人听得懂-「没有人听得懂」(动
词akouo,原意是听,但在这里指的是内心的理解,参见马可福音4:33及以後、加拉太书
4:21及以後的类似含义)强调了方言的,并非对人说话的方言,并非对人说话。人们能听
到他说话,却无法理解。这段经文的重点是,没有人听懂这个人所说的语言。同样,他所
说的话对听者来说也是奥秘或未知的,因为它们没有被翻译出来(参见翻方言的属灵恩赐
)。它们并非「神秘莫测、狂喜的话语!」总之,他所说的话别人无法理解,这强调了方
言不如预言,保罗将在接下来的经文中进一步解释这一点。
Staton - A person who speaks in a foreign language cannot communicate to
others, for they do not understand him. Only God understands what this person
is saying (1 Corinthians)
Some think Paul is referring not to human languages but to "ecstatic
utterances," but that does not fit the context for later he states that these
tongues can be interpreted (1 Cor 14:27-28+). Paul also states later that the
speaker himself may be able to act as an interpreter (1 Cor 12:5, 13)
史塔顿 - 说外语的人无法与他人交流,因为别人听不懂他的话。只有上帝明白这个人在
说什麽(哥林多前书)。
有些人认为保罗指的不是人类的语言,而是“狂喜的言语”,但这与上下文不符,因为他
後来指出,这些语言是可以翻译的(哥林多前书 14:27-28+)。保罗後来也提到,说话的
人自己也可以充当翻译(哥林多前书 12:5, 13)。
Utley suggests that "Tongues at Corinth seem to be unknown, articulated
sounds. At Delphi one special person (usually a woman) would utter
inarticulate sounds, then another would interpret these for the ones present.
This procedure seems to parallel the experience of “tongues” at Corinth.
乌特利认为,「哥林多的方言似乎是未知的、清晰的声音」。在德尔斐,一个特殊的人(
通常是女性)会发出不清晰的声音,然後另一个人会为在场的人解释这些声音。这种程序
似乎与哥林多的「方言」经验相似。
======================================
大家可以特别注意最後一个解释。当时希腊文化常常有所谓的Delphi(相当於民间宗教的『乩童』),所以他认为哥林多教会的方言或许多少也有这种Delphi(当时的希腊民间宗教)的色彩。
第二个解释提到『说话的人可以自己翻译』,老夫已经出题了!等方言大师拿老夫的脸皮当拖把拖地中~~~~~~XDDDDDDDDD
当然,看到那位自封TJC发言人却又不懂希腊文原文的大师,大言不惭的推翻所有懂希腊文+不懂说方言/灵语的西方学者的共识,真的是一件『神蹟』哦~~~~
收工~~~~娱乐完毕~~~~回去干活~~~~~阿门!
--
※ 发信站: 批踢踢实业坊(ptt.cc), 来自: 27.125.248.194 (马来西亚)
※ 文章网址: https://webptt.com/cn.aspx?n=bbs/Christianity/M.1753934972.A.DA5.html
※ 编辑: df93 (27.125.248.194 马来西亚), 07/31/2025 12:22:13
1F:推 kazukazu22: 就是Rehma 07/31 12:21
2F:推 kazukazu22: 更正 Rhema 07/31 12:23
3F:推 jdcbest: 什麽比较大? tf>TJC>bible 07/31 12:38
对了,帮忙作证:TF自封发言人的事~~~~ :PPPPP
※ 编辑: df93 (27.125.248.194 马来西亚), 07/31/2025 12:43:25
4F:推 ptttalker: 保罗在外邦人教会中常处理异教信仰混杂的问题, 07/31 19:03
5F:→ ptttalker: 同样的情况在华人社会也会发生, 07/31 19:03
6F:→ ptttalker: 旧有的文化和信仰多少会影响预设的认知框架。 07/31 19:03
7F:推 kazukazu22: 使徒行传 17:22-23 07/31 20:58
8F:→ kazukazu22: 保罗不忌讳用异教神话来谈论基督信仰 07/31 20:59
9F:→ kazukazu22: 这也是现在强调的跨文化宣教 07/31 20:59
10F:→ kazukazu22: 因为在保罗眼中 那些外邦神并不存在 07/31 21:00
11F:→ kazukazu22: 那背後只是「人格化」的哲学理论 07/31 21:00
12F:→ kazukazu22: 就像Delphi 表面上是太阳神信仰 07/31 21:01
13F:→ kazukazu22: 实际上是每个人自由解释神谕 07/31 21:01
14F:→ kazukazu22: 演变成现在的研究方法:德尔菲法 07/31 21:02
15F:→ kazukazu22: 自由发言、自由表达、不受其他意见干涉 07/31 21:02
16F:→ ostracize: df62=df93被水桶还能发文?! 08/08 17:39