※ 引述《strongshort (力量与智慧)》之铭言： : 非关学术性讨论就不回应删除了 : ※ 引述《Lepputte (纯粹)》之铭言： : 1. 既然你提到 我也提到Harrison 那你应该有看到osteoporosis那章 : 那 为什麽 里面的risk factor不提到胶质? : 有几种可能: 1)目前对collagen了解很少 但这点不太可能 见下点说明 : 2)胶质有影响 但对大部分的骨质疏松患者来说 胶质比重只占很小部分 : 3)只有在极少数案例中胶质是有影响的 学长若可以找的到我後面附的论文，有兴趣的话，等两周後我考完试咱们再来讨论 : 对於上面举的第二第三点 倘若你质疑的是我之前过份果断的语气 嗯 是没错。因为很多事，我们并不能那麽的肯定， 所以才会觉得比较好的态度是提出你所看的参考资料， 根据 xxx 所以我认为 ..... 而不是很武断的以己之见。 : 我承认并收回并道歉 我不该忽略极少数的案例 我後面的论文有提到一些有趣的假设，我觉得颇多启发。 : 2. 目前已经有非常多研究在探讨胶质与osteoporosis的关系 : 甚至事实上也有人确实这麽认为(请参阅期刊 endocrine方面尤佳) : 病理上很多步骤都似乎有相关的但临床上目前都没有太大的成果出来 : 我倾向就目前的证据来讲话 : 假设你是想要质疑我不该就尚未建立机制的部分置喙的话 : 我承认并收回并道歉 我不该就仍在进行中的研究说出自己果断的评论 : 3. 钙质只是骨质疏松那个大表格里面的一项 甚至是被排到很後面的一项 : 牛奶又只是含钙质食物中的一项 : 我从没听过有论文说过只要补钙质就可以预防骨质疏松 这点说过很多次了 : 我更没听过要补钙质一定要喝牛奶这项 : 所以我不懂这些网路文章是看哪一国的期刊跟研究成果 原post的网路文章有些地方是有问题，不过，我讨论的主要是胶质跟钙质吸附的问题。 : 4. 我诚挚建议既然翻开了Harrison就看完他 现在我还没修内科学，不过，已经买了Harrison开始在念， 我想我之後会念完它的，感谢学长的经验分享。 : 我是站在一个求学过来人的经验分享 当然要是你对内科真的没兴趣也不勉强 事实上，我对内科极有兴趣。并不排斥各科。 日後蛮想走内科。怕没人要而已 :) Osteoporosis, a unitary hypothesis of collagen loss in skin and bone. [Review] Medical Hypotheses. 65(3):426-32, 2005. Abstract: Progress in osteoporosis has been stultified by repetitive, statistic-driven studies and catechistic reviews; in the absence of concept and hypothesis research is aimless, and the trivial associations it continually reveals, has led to the cul-de-sac of multifactorialism. A return to hypothesis-led research which seeks major causal defects and the conclusive therapies that arise from them is essential. The hypothesis proposed evolved from research into the mechanism of senile purpura. This predicted a causal loss of skin collagen that was contrary to contemporary opinion, but was confirmed when collagen was expressed absolutely, instead as a percentage or ratio: women have less collagen than men and it decreases by 1% a year in exposed and unexposed skin. Corticosteroids (which also produce shear purpura) reduce skin collagen and androgen and virilism increase it; growth hormone produces the greatest increase, and there is a decrease in hypopituitarism. All these changes in skin collagen correspond to changes in bone density, and the circumstances are too various for coincidence. This led to the hypothesis that the changes found in skin collagen also occur in bone collagen, leading to the associated changes in bone density ; thus a loss of collagen in skin and bones with aging is the causal counterpart to loss of bone density in senile osteoporosis. If this is correct then, as with aging, androgen and virilisation, corticosteroids, growth hormone and hypopituitarism, changes in bone density should correspond to systemic changes in skin collagen. This correspondence is found to occur in osteogenesis imperfecta and Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, two genetically discrete families of disordered collagen production, and other situations, e.g., scurvy and homocystinuria. A primary loss of collagen in osteoporotic bones is an essential prediction of the hypothesis; in fact this loss is well established but, inexplicably, it has been assumed to be secondary to the bone loss. Because of the comparable changes in skin and bones, the hypothesis implies that skin collagen could be used to predict the state of the bones and their response to treatment. It also implies androgen should be an effective treatment of osteoporosis, and growth hormone even more effective (likewise, of course, skin aging). More importantly, skin collagen and the production of collagen by skin fibroblasts could be used for the assay and industrial development of more potent, if not less toxic treatments and prevention of loss of bone (and skin) substance 如果有兴趣的话可以对对看 Harrison 16 eds p2271 Table 333-2列的 disease associated with an increase risk of generalized osteoporosis in Adults. 抱歉，在中医板列英文，不过，我把有趣的地方弄显目了，应该不用花太多时间看的 。 明天要考期末考，不能多聊，之後有空再来讨论。 -- 我们啊~~ 总是张开着帆 迎着风 一叶小舟 划过一波又一波 浪的挑战 向梦和理想的岛屿 前进 --

※ 发信站: 批踢踢实业坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From: 163.25.118.31 ※ 编辑: Lepputte 来自: 163.25.118.31 (06/11 23:43) ※ 编辑: Lepputte 来自: 163.25.118.31 (06/11 23:44)