※ [本文转录自 Monotheism 看板 #1IR1fyFM ] ※ [本文转录自 JesusLove 看板 #1IQOF5dw ] 台湾众教会现在如此包容召会，一起出现在基督教论坛报攻击东方闪电，但是却未曾听见 一直批判基督教是「妓女」（此一说法大量出现於召会各种出版品，包括李常受生命读经 、晨兴圣言、结晶读经、录影训练等等）、是「公会」（去召会聚一次会，就会听到召会 从上到下都这样骂主内肢体，难不成召会以「私会」自居？），至今也未曾改变态度依旧 继续骂主内肢体的这一群人，公开说一声对不起，改口尊重其他教会，真正是骄傲自大、 欺人太甚。我反问一个问题，那些不知道召会与李常受的各种异端说法与实行的正统基督 教界朋友们，一旦知道一切的真相，还愿意不愿意与召会站在一起？ ※ 引述《Tiunn (guesswho)》之铭言： : ※ [本文转录自 Christianity 看板 #1IQIggZ4 ] : 作者: Tiunn (guesswho) 看板: Christianity : 标题: 「地方召会」被列入ECNR『新宗教与非正统教派』 : 时间: Thu Oct 24 22:11:47 2013 : 「地方召会」被列入ECNR『新宗教与非正统教派』百科全书之理由 : 福音派基督徒之所以将「地方召会」列入ECNR『新宗教与非正统教派』百科全书，其理由 : 认为李氏下列几点之教训与正统基督徒信仰出现矛盾之处。特别是在教义上「神性的本质 : 」、「人性的本质」两大部份。笔者补译几个重点供弟兄姊妹参考，好让大家有重新思考 : 的空间。 : On the Nature of God : 神的本质 : "The Son is called the Father; so the Son must be the Father. We must realize : this fact. There are some who say that He is called the Father, but He is not : really the Father. But how could He be called the Father and yet not be the : Father?... In the place where no man can approach Him (I Tim. 6:16), God is : the Father. When He comes forth to manifest Himself, He is the Son. So, a Son : is given, yet His name is called 'The everlasting Father.' This very Son who : has been given to us is the very Father." : "子被称为父，那麽子必然是父......" : 出处：包罗万有基督之灵。第四、五页 : Witness Lee, The All-Inclusive Spirit of Christ : (Los Angeles: The Stream Publishers, 1969), pp. 4-5 : "...the entire Godhead, the Triune God, became flesh." : .....整个神格，是三一神，成为肉身......... : 出处：神的新约经纶。第230页 : Witness Lee, God's New Testament Economy : (Anaheim: Living Stream Ministry, 1986), p. 230 : "The traditional explanation of the Trinity is grossly inadequate and : borders on tritheism. When the Spirit of God is joined with us, God is not : left behind, nor does Christ remain on the throne. This is the impression : Christianity gives. They think of the Father as one Person, sending the Son, : another Person, to accomplish redemption, after which the Son sends the : Spirit, yet another Person. The Spirit, in traditional thinking, comes into : the believers, while the Father and Son are left on the throne. When : believers pray, they are taught to bow before the Father and pray in the name : of the Son. To split the Godhead into these separate Persons is not the : revelation of the Bible...." : ..............把神格分为三个位格不是圣经的启示...... : 出处：生命读经。第164页 : Witness Lee, Life Messages : (Anaheim: Living Stream Ministry, 1979), p. 164 : "THE SON IS THE FATHER, AND THE SON IS ALSO THE SPIRIT.... and the Lord : Jesus who is the Son is also the Eternal Father. Our Lord is the Son, and He : is also the Father. Hallelujah!" : ..."子是那父，子也是那灵"........我们的主是那子，也是那父....... : 出处：关於三一神。第18-19页 : Witness Lee, Concerning the Triune God : (Anaheim: Living Stream Ministry, 1973), pp. 18-19 : "Therefore, it is clear: The Lord Jesus is the Father, the Son, and the : Spirit, and He is the very God. He is also the Lord. He is the Father, the : Son, the Spirit, the Mighty God, and the Lord." : ........主耶稣是父，是子，是那灵........ : 出处：关於三一神的属灵启示。 : Witness Lee, The Clear Scriptural Revelation : Concerning the Triune God : www.contendingforthefaith.org/responses/booklets/triune.html : "The Father, the Son, and the Spirit are not three separate persons or three : Gods; they are one God, one reality, one person." : ....父，子，灵不是三个身位或三位神，....他们是一个身位...... : 出处：三一神活在人里。第48页 : Witness Lee, The Triune God to Be Life to the Tripartite Man : (Anaheim: Living Stream Ministry, 1970), p. 48 : On the Nature of Humanity : 人性的本质 : "Christ is of two natures, the human and the divine, and we are the same: we : are of the human nature, but covered with the divine. He is the God-man, and : we are the God-men. He is the ark made of wood covered with gold, and we are : the boards made of wood covered with gold. In number we are different, but in : nature we are exactly the same." : ....基督有人性和神性.....在本质上我们也是一样....... : 出处：包罗万有基督。第103页 : Witness Lee, The All-Inclusive Christ : (Anaheim: Living Stream Ministry, 5th ed. 1989), p. 103 : "God can say to His believers, 'I am divine and human,' and His believers : can reply, 'Praise You, Lord. You are divine and human, and we are human and : divine.'" : 神可对信徒说"我是神也是人".....信徒可回答 "我们是人也是神"..... : 出处：三一神活在人里。第51-52页 : Witness Lee, The Triune God to Be Life to the Tripartite Man : (Anaheim: Living Stream Ministry, 1990), pp. 51-52 : "My burden is to show you clearly that God's economy and plan is to make : Himself man and to make us, His created beings, 'God,' so that He is : 'man-ized' and we are 'God-ized.' In the end, He and we, we and He, all : become God-men.' : ".....神的经纶和计划是把祂自己做成人，把我们做成祂造的"神"...... : 出处：神圣分赐的更深研究。第54页 : Witness Lee, A Deeper Study of the Divine Dispensing : (Anaheim: Living Stream Ministry, 1990), p. 54 : "We the believers are begotten of God. What is begotten of man is man, and : what is begotten of God must be God. We are born of God; hence, in this : sense, we are God." : ........我们 从神生，因此，在此理解，我们是神. : 出处：Ibid., p. 53 : Ibid., p. 53 : "Because the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are all one with the Body of : Christ, we may say that the Triune God is now the 'four-in-one' God.' These : four are the Father, the Son, the Spirit, and the Body. The Three of the : Divine Trinity cannot be confused or separated, and the four-in-one also : cannot be separated or confused." : ........父、子、灵 都在基督的身体，我们可以说三一神现是四一神，父、子、灵和身 : 体。 : 出处：Ibid., pp. 203-204 : Ibid., pp. 203-204 : On the Legitimacy of Evangelical Churches and Denominations : 基督教福音教会和各宗派的正统性 : We decry as inconsistent and unjustifiable the attempts by Living Stream and : the "local churches" to gain membership in associations of evangelical : churches and ministries while continuing to promote Witness Lee's denigrating : characterizations of such churches and ministries as follows: : 「地方召会」及「水流职事站」在取得基督教福音教会所属的协会会员资格，却同时继续 : 推展李氏教导贬低这些基督教福音教会和事奉，我们认为此种做法是矛盾和不公义的。 : "The Lord is not building His church in Christendom, which is composed of the : apostate Roman Catholic Church and the Protestant denominations. This : prophecy is being fulfilled through the Lord's recovery, in which the : building of the genuine church is being accomplished." : .....主不是在基督教国建立召会，基督教国是由堕落罗马天主教，和改革各宗派 ..... : 出处：新约恢复本99页 : Witness Lee in The New Testament Recovery Version, : note 184 (Matthew 16:18) : (Anaheim: Living Stream Ministry, 1991), p. 99 : http://online.recoveryversion.org/FootNotes.asp?FNtsID=639 : "The apostate church has deviated from the Lord's word and become heretical. : The reformed church, though recovered to the Lord's word to some extent, has : denied the Lord's name by denominating herself, taking many other names, such : as Lutherans, Wesleyan, Anglican, Presbyterian, Baptist, etc. ... To deviate : from the Lord's word is apostasy, and to denominate the church by taking any : name other than the Lord's is spiritual fornication." : ......使用宗派否认主的名如信义会、卫思理会、长老会、浸信会....... : 出处：新约恢复本1256页 : Witness Lee in The New Testament Recovery Version, : note 83 (Revelation 3:8) : (Anaheim: Living Stream Ministry, 1991), p. 1256 : http://online.recoveryversion.org/FootNotes.asp?FNtsID=8759 : "I am afraid that a number of us are still under the negative influence of : Christendom. We all have to realize that today the Lord is going on and on to : fully recover us and bring us fully out of Christendom." : ".....今天主要完成恢复我们带我们完全离开基督教国 ........ : 出处： 教会历史与地方召会。132页 : Witness Lee, The History of the Church and the Local Churches : (Anaheim: Living Stream Ministry, 1991), p. 132 : "In every denomination, including the Roman Catholic Church, there are real, : saved Christians. They are God's people belonging to the Lord. But the : organization of the denominations in which they are is not of God. The : denominational organizations have been utilized by Satan to set up his : satanic system to destroy God's economy of the proper church life." : ..........基督教宗派组织是被撒旦利用建立撒旦系统破坏神的经纶........ : 出处：创世纪生命读经464页 : Witness Lee, "Message Thirty-Four" in The Life-Study of Genesis : (Anaheim: Living Stream Ministry, 1987), Vol. 1, p. 464 : "We do not care for Christianity, we do not care for Christendom, we do not : care for the Roman Catholic church, and we do not care for all the : denominations, because in the Bible it says that the great Babylon is fallen. : This is a declaration. Christianity is fallen, Christendom is fallen, : Catholicism is fallen, and all the denominations are fallen. Hallelujah!" : ...........这是个宣告基督教堕落...所有基督教宗派是堕落 ..... : 出处： 地方召会的七灵97页 : Witness Lee, The Seven Spirits for the Local Churches : (Anaheim: Living Stream Ministry, 1989), p. 97 : "To know God is not adequate. To know Christ is also not adequate. Even to : know the church is not adequate. We must go on to know the churches which are : local. If we are up-to-date in following the Lord, we will realize that today : is the day of the local churches." : .......我们将会了解现今是地方召会的日子. : 出处：Ibid., p. 23 : Ibid., p. 23 : We respectfully call on the leadership of Living Stream Ministry and the : "local churches" to disavow and cease to publish these and similar : declarations. : 我们尊敬的呼吁「地方召会」及「水流职事站」领导，收回和停止出版这些和类似的教导 : 。 : http://blog.haleluya.com.tw/wataru/archives/6852.html 以下若有任何一字谎言，愿主删除我生命册上的名，永世时下火湖。李常受位在圣灵之後 ，居第四位，1986年於台北市召会也有一模一样的说法，连讲员都是与美国德州场同一人 ：韩德璞( Paul Hon )，台北市召会场我本人在现场，同年台北市召会呼求李常受特会， Howard Higashi和余洁麟主持，我本人也在现场，我没有呼求李常受的名，此场聚会一般 认定是中国大陆「呼喊派－呼求常受主，呼求常受神」的起点，虽然召会声称李常受曾去 信中国大陆阻止，但召会从未对美国德州场与台北市召会两场做任何解释，至少两场异端 聚会都在台北市召会第三聚会所二楼大会场举行，两场都满场，各约数百人、也许接近千 人的特会。余洁麟来到香港时，由香港教会长老温继有向余洁麟面询，如此呼求李常受的 名是何用意？余洁麟承认曾有此事。drea，你那时後应该是在吸奶，甚至还没有投胎。 drea，你现在怎麽噤声龟缩了？敢快拿出良心勇敢斥责并弃绝召会聚会所李常受异端，否 则你就是爱异端不爱真 神。本事件始末请参考「香港教会全体长老同工就当今工作局面 的一些声明」超连结如下： http://1974748.blogspot.tw/2010/08/blog-post_22.html drea，你算是有一点勇气，Good，你应该是个年轻人，未曾亲身经历过召会那些荒唐的年 代。但是前述都是已经发生过的事实，建议你拿出良心与勇气，亲自向那几位所谓的同工 求证，然後以正直的灵，大声斥责这一些妄人妄言妄行妄事，并且斥责并弃绝至今没有对 这些已经发生过的事实做出任何解释与悔改的错谬异端系统。 正统基督信仰 vs. 召会聚会所： 三一 神，三位一体 vs. 四一神，四位一体 神格里父居首位 vs. 神格里子居首位 父、子、圣灵区别而不分开 vs. 父就是子，子就是那灵 圣子道成肉身 vs. 圣父、圣子、圣灵一起道成肉身 基督是非受造 vs. 基督是受造物 独一一位基督 vs. 团体的基督 神的儿女 vs. 人成为神 朋友，你还能说召会不是异端吗？ 李常受错误的神论----------圣经未曾有过的「启示」 「四一神，四位一体-------这是否暗示圣父、圣子、与圣灵之外，还有另外一位神？」 ，「神格里子居首位-------这暗示圣父不是宇宙一切的源头，也明示神格里圣父不是居 首位」，「子就是父，子就是那灵-------这是形态论，李常受另说『受造的基督』，如 此强烈暗示圣父、圣子、圣灵都是受造物，这是宇宙中最大的亵渎」，「圣父、圣子、圣 灵一起道成肉身-------这暗示圣父与圣灵也都钉了十字架」，「圣子是创造者也是被造 之物-------受造的基督，这是最可恶的亵渎，请注意，撒但是受造物，击杀撒但的基督 ，是创造者，绝非受造者，基督的人性是被生出的，不是被造的（西1：15，爱子是首生 的）」，「团体的基督-------请问基督徒所相信的是耶稣基督，还是团体的基督？」， 「人成为神-------请注意，信徒永远是 神的儿女，永远不能成为神，『人成为神』是 宇宙中极大的亵渎，撒但就是要想与 神同等，才堕落与背叛的」，「生的神，熟的神 -------请注意，自有永有亘古不变的 神，是宇宙唯一绝对者与永不改变者，生熟之论 不符 神的属性，亦非圣经的启示」，「李常受的子化论-------请注意，圣经无一处讲 过『子化』，主耶稣没有经过『子化』，也根本不需要『子化』，圣子自有永有亘古不变 ，何来子化之有」，「李常受的那灵论-------请注意，圣灵自有永有亘古不变，何需演 进之有」等等、、、 李常受错误的释经----------按照私意的「解经」 「新约希伯来书的作者是保罗（参李常受恢复本圣经希伯来书之着者）」，「保罗十四封 书信（含希伯来书）」-------请问，圣经何处启示出希伯来书的作者？「雅各书违反了 神新约的经纶（参李常受恢复本圣经雅各书， 1：1注4， 1：5注1， 1：11注1， 1：25 注2， 1：26注1， 2：10注1， 3：12注1， 3：17注1， 4：11注1）」-------请问，圣 经都是 神所默示的， 神的言语句句都是炼净的，像这种又主观又否定圣经的释经态度 ，绝对不是从 神来的。等等、、、 李常受的错误不胜枚举，罄竹难书，以上稍列李常受谬误数端，从最重大的神学，到较轻 微的解经，召会李常受信众若是照单全收，便是自证「我只相信李弟兄」，建议卸下信基 大楼「主的恢复展览馆」内「圣经是我们独一无二的标准」招牌，换成「我们只相信倪柝 声与李常受」，以示诚实。 认识真理，永不嫌迟；知错能改，为时不晚。 Alchemy 拒绝再回应任何问题浪费时间，召会李常受信众「见笑转生气」的吠言，欢迎随 时补上，不再编辑，保证不删。你们在自己的问题里打墙，恐怕主耶稣亲自来解说，也无 法说服这种「我只相信李弟兄」的蛋头（「我只相信李弟兄」，是大约二十年前起迄今， Alchemy 发现召会大有问题後，每每於召会公开或私下的提问，除了招致「围剿公干」外 ，所得到的一致回应）。网友若名为 Satan或 Lucifer者，不受此限，24小时全年无休随 时候教，保证把你痛击成 Natas或 Reficul. 荣耀归 神，哈利路亚，阿们。 --

※ 发信站: 批踢踢实业坊(ptt.cc) ※ 转录者: alchemi (36.232.210.58), 时间: 10/29/2013 03:11:32 ※ 编辑: alchemi 来自: 36.232.218.153 (11/05 21:02)